Which teak seam calk?

Jim Conlin wrote:
 > Glenn, in addition to recommendation by the boatyards in these parts,
 > I got a recommendation for the TDS product from the US tech support
 > guy from Sika. Sika stopped importing a product for this application.
 > The TDS product didn't seem to be as messy as the polysulfide goos.
 > When sanded you get crumbs.
 >
 > One option I don't recommend is graphite in epoxy. The dust stains
 > the teak.


I am leaning towards the TDS product. Epoxy/graphite was eliminated in
the first round. Besides being even nastier than 5200 it is just
counter intuitive. Wood moves. Epoxy doesn't. That seems like a sure
setup for cracks.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</a>
Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

If you can find some installed examples to check the finish of the
seams, directly, you may find differences significant to you. I can't
speak directly to your question, but I have found a great variety of
appearance in caulks after cure - beyond the obvious coloration.

Rufus


Glenn Ashmore wrote:
 > Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on
 > the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60
 > cartriges of caulk.
 >
 > The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks are:
 > Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580
 > Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540
 > Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510
 > Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450
 >
 > I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing
 > or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without
 > wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly
 > recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions.
 >
 > Does anyone have experience with either?
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

Glenn,
I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you
will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the
financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape on
the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of
the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common
cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When I
did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA. Today,
most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load
into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive,
but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper
prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a
point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about
doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck!
Steve

"Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04...
 > Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on
 > the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60
 > cartriges of caulk.
 >
 > The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks are:
 > Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580
 > Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540
 > Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510
 > Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450
 >
 > I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing
 > or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without
 > wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly
 > recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions.
 >
 > Does anyone have experience with either?
 >
 > --
 > Glenn Ashmore
 >
 > I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
<font color=purple> > there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font</a>>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

"Steve Lusardi"

 > Today,
 > most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load
 > into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive,
 > but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper
 > prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle.

SFWIW, I have a manual gun that uses "sausages". Does a great job.

Night and day difference between it and the typical DIY, 10.5 oz gun.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

I've heard a lot of good stuff about TDS' stuff. I've used 3M's product as
well with good success. Can't remember the number, but it's labeled "teak
deck seam/sealer" or something obvious like that.

"Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04...
 > Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on
 > the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60
 > cartriges of caulk.
 >
 > The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks are:
 > Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580
 > Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540
 > Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510
 > Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450
 >
 > I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing
 > or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without
 > wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly
 > recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions.
 >
 > Does anyone have experience with either?
 >
 > --
 > Glenn Ashmore
 >
 > I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
<font color=purple> > there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font</a>>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

Oh yea, Boatlife makes a bondbreaker cord that you should use in the bottom
of each seam.

"Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam.DeleteThis@lusardi.de> wrote in message
news:br39g9$q3$03$1@news.t-online.com...
 > Glenn,
 > I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you
 > will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the
 > financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape
on
 > the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of
 > the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common
 > cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When
I
 > did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA.
Today,
 > most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load
 > into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive,
 > but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper
 > prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a
 > point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about
 > doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck!
 > Steve
 >
 > "Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
 > news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04...
  > > Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on
  > > the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60
  > > cartriges of caulk.
  > >
  > > The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks are:
  > > Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580
  > > Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540
  > > Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510
  > > Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450
  > >
  > > I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing
  > > or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without
  > > wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly
  > > recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions.
  > >
  > > Does anyone have experience with either?
  > >
  > > --
  > > Glenn Ashmore
  > >
  > > I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
<font color=green>  > > there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</font</a>>
<font color=green>  > > Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font</a>>
  > >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

I agree about the bond breaker but not about the silicone. The TDS
caulk was recommended to me by Brooklyn Boatyard and PJ. I have a small
sample of the TDS decking and it is pretty amazing. The bond is so
strong that TDS doesn't even use a backing on their prefabbed decking.
It is held together by the caulk only.

Steve Lusardi wrote:
 > Glenn,
 > I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you
 > will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the
 > financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape on
 > the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of
 > the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common
 > cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When I
 > did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA. Today,
 > most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load
 > into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive,
 > but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper
 > prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a
 > point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about
 > doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck!
 > Steve
 >
 > "Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore.RemoveThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
 > news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04...
 >
  >>Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on
  >>the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60
  >>cartriges of caulk.
  >>
  >>The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks are:
  >>Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580
  >>Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540
  >>Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510
  >>Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450
  >>
  >>I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing
  >>or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without
  >>wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly
  >>recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions.
  >>
  >>Does anyone have experience with either?
  >>
  >>--
  >>Glenn Ashmore
  >>
  >>I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
<font color=green>  >>there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</font</a>>
<font color=green>  >>Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font</a>>
  >>
 >
 >
 >

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</a>
Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

"Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore.RemoveThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04...
 > Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on
 > the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60
 > cartriges of caulk.
 >
 > The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks are:
 > Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580
 > Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540
 > Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510
 > Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450
 >
 > I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing
 > or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without
 > wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly
 > recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions.
 >
 > Does anyone have experience with either?

No experience with the silicones. I'd really try to find from people who
have used these products for several years in tropical weather before using
them (though I shudder at the thought of that much caulking - have you an
air operated caulking gun or can you rent one?)

I do know the 2 part polysulphides have an excellent repuation.

Don't forget to use the bond breaker tape on the bottom of the seams and the
appropriate primer if you use the 2 part stuff.

--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

For what it is worth:
I'l support: Awoid silicone and use tape.

With all the efford you have put into the project, don't try to save a penny
on this one.

(I'm no expert but I am going to re-chauck my deck this winter, so the
subject definitly has my interest)

Peter

"Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam.RemoveThis@lusardi.de> skrev i en meddelelse
news:br39g9$q3$03$1@news.t-online.com...
 > Glenn,
 > I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you
 > will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the
 > financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape
on
 > the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of
 > the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common
 > cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When
I
 > did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA.
Today,
 > most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load
 > into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive,
 > but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper
 > prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a
 > point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about
 > doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck!
 > Steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

"Peter S/Y Anicula" <aniculapeterNoSpam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eamBb.56277$jf4.3174462@news000.worldonline.dk...
 > For what it is worth:
 > I'l support: Awoid silicone and use tape.

Using tape is a must. But why the aversion against silicone? I mean, it's
not the ordinary silicone houshold stuff we're talking about. This stuff is
specially designed for decks. I remember an article in Woodenboat about this
and they where very enthousiastic about it.

Meindert<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

Interesting comment about tape on the bottom of the joint. This is
something that is common to all sealing / jointing, but is overlooked by
most people. Consider a joint with two sides and bottom. Something like a
tongue and groove. Sealant can withstand say 30% extension before failure.
If the joint has a non-stick "bottom" like tape or backing rod, then as the
joint expands the sealant cross section lengthens - but it also gets
"narrower" to maintain it's volume. If it's stuck to the bottom of the
joint it can't shrink upwards, so the top surface must contract much more
than the 30 %, and it tears and the joint fails.. Sorry if this is not a
clear word picture. But the essence of it is that every time you fill a
three sided joint right to the bottom ( which is the intuitive way to do it)
you are building in failure!!
People think backing rods in joints are to save sealant and not worth
worrying about. They ( or non-stick tape) are critical to a successful
joint.
One of my pet hobby horse topics!
David

"Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam DeleteThis @lusardi.de> wrote in message
news:br39g9$q3$03$1@news.t-online.com...
 > Glenn,
 > I would stay away from any silicone product because, once you use it, you
 > will never be able to use anything else. It maybe very good, but the
 > financial risk if it fails is very high. A very useful tip is to use tape
on
 > the bottom of every seam. This will prevent the calk from being peeled of
 > the sides when expansion and contraction occurs. That is the most common
 > cause of calk failure. You know polysulfide works, why take the risk? When
I
 > did my deck I used 242 tubes and I had to load each one, a real PITA.
Today,
 > most of the polysulfide makers offer their product in sausages that load
 > into pneumatic guns. This is the only way to go. These guns are expensive,
 > but the time and product savings is amazing. The thin plastic wrapper
 > prevents the polysulfide from air exposure until it exits the nozzle. As a
 > point to note, moisture exposure causes the cure. Don't even think about
 > doing this in anything but the driest conditions. Good luck!
 > Steve
 >
 > "Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
 > news:oC2Bb.90342$xV6.61520@lakeread04...
  > > Rutu' teak decking will have about 1,100 lineal feet of seams. Based on
  > > the manufacturers' coverage figures that will require 4 gallons or 60
  > > cartriges of caulk.
  > >
  > > The candidates with estimated cost for Rutu's decks are:
  > > Detco - 2 part polysulfide & primer + cartriges - $580
  > > Boatlife - 2 part Polysulfide & primer + cartriges $540
  > > Maritime Wood Products - one part oxime silicone - $510
  > > Teak Decking Systems SIS 440 - one part silicone - $450
  > >
  > > I am leaning strongly towards the silicones because there is no mixing
  > > or cartrige filling and you can stop at the end of a cartrige without
  > > wasting the rest of the gallon. Both silicones seem to be highly
  > > recommended with the TDS product getting the most mentions.
  > >
  > > Does anyone have experience with either?
  > >
  > > --
  > > Glenn Ashmore
  > >
  > > I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
<font color=green>  > > there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</font</a>>
<font color=green>  > > Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font</a>>
  > >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

I guess I have a general aversion against silicone on boats. This is based
on experience from 20 years ago with some marine silicone products, that I
didn't like.

I realise that I'm probably not up to date on this subject. I'll look
further
in to it. Until then, forget my advise against silicone for deck seams.

Peter S/Y Anicula


"Meindert Sprang" <mhsprang RemoveThis @NOcustomSPAMware.nl> skrev i en meddelelse
news:3fd6088e$1@news.nb.nu...
 > "Peter S/Y Anicula" <aniculapeterNoSpam RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:eamBb.56277$jf4.3174462@news000.worldonline.dk...
  > > For what it is worth:
  > > I'l support: Awoid silicone and use tape.
 >
 > Using tape is a must. But why the aversion against silicone? I mean, it's
 > not the ordinary silicone houshold stuff we're talking about. This stuff
is
 > specially designed for decks. I remember an article in Woodenboat about
this
 > and they where very enthousiastic about it.
 >
 > Meindert
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk? 

"Peter S/Y Anicula" <aniculapeterNoSpam RemoveThis @hotmail.com> writes:

 >I guess I have a general aversion against silicone on boats. This is based
 >on experience from 20 years ago with some marine silicone products, that I
 >didn't like.

....But then again, nobody has even 10 years of experience of the new
silicones.

Glenn, having seen your boat built from the start (virtually) I would hate
to see you ruin the deck with some non-proved new wonder goo when a known
and long-used 2-part polysulphide would be a safe alternative.

Everything I know of wooden boats tells that silicone should be kept far
from wood. If you start using silicone there is no way back. There has
been enough bad examples of miraculous new products failing after a few
years. Your boat is a pretty big testfield for expensive failures...

Pekka



--
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.puuvene.net/" target="_blank">http://www.puuvene.net/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Which teak seam calk?