starter problems

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:23:24 +0100, "Tony Brooks"
<marine.RemoveThis@reading-college.ac.uk> wrote:

 >
 >"Jürgen Spelter" <juergen.spelter.RemoveThis@uni-essen.de> wrote in message
 >news:c6so3n$favid$1@ID-225577.news.uni-berlin.de...
  >> Hi,
  >>
  >> I have an old dutch canal boat with the good old mercedes OM 636 engine.
  >> Engine works pretty well, but starting is a problem. After pre-heating the
  >> engine some times starter doesn`t work, some times starter works very
 >well.
  >> When starter doesn`t work, I hear a noise coming from the starter. It is a
  >> little clicking noise, but starter doesn`t work. If I try starting several
  >> times, starter works suddenly. Sometimes I have to try it 3 or 4 times,
  >> sometimes I have to try it oftener.
  >>
  >> Has anybody same experiences or a tip for solving that problem?
  >>
  >> regards from good old germany
  >>
  >> Juergen
  >>
 >
 >The clicking is usually the starter solenoid getting enough "electricity"
 >for it to pull the main contcats together, but then when teh motor tries to
 >draw a very high current the circuit "runs out of electricity" so the
 >solenoid springs back, this breaks teh contacts, removing the load, so all
 >can start again. We often call it "machine gunning".
 >
 >The question is "why does it run out of electricity?".
 >
 >1. Flat/faulty battery - not in this case , because it works eventually.
 >
 >2. Short circuit in starter motor - as above.
 >
 >3. Dirty/loose battery connections - very likely if not regularly
 >maintained.
 >
 >4. Loose crimp/solder between any terminal and its cable - visual inspection
 >and gard tugs.
 >
 >5. Loose terminals where fixed to components -a s above.
 >
 >6. Open circuit on solenoid hold in coil - possible, but mot likley because
 >it eventually starts as normal.
 >
 >
 >If its a single click it is likely to be loose/dirty battery terminals or
 >loose connections

You missed number one on my check list - a corroded battery switch.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: starter problems 

"martin" <me.RemoveThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:v844901afr477lma999gdj1ogfmbfvhele@4ax.com...
 > On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:23:24 +0100, "Tony Brooks"
 > <marine.RemoveThis@reading-college.ac.uk> wrote:
 >
  > >
  > >"Jürgen Spelter" <juergen.spelter.RemoveThis@uni-essen.de> wrote in message
  > >news:c6so3n$favid$1@ID-225577.news.uni-berlin.de...
   > >> Hi,
   > >>
   > >> I have an old dutch canal boat with the good old mercedes OM 636
engine.
   > >> Engine works pretty well, but starting is a problem. After pre-heating
the
   > >> engine some times starter doesn`t work, some times starter works very
  > >well.
   > >> When starter doesn`t work, I hear a noise coming from the starter. It
is a
   > >> little clicking noise, but starter doesn`t work. If I try starting
several
   > >> times, starter works suddenly. Sometimes I have to try it 3 or 4 times,
   > >> sometimes I have to try it oftener.
   > >>
   > >> Has anybody same experiences or a tip for solving that problem?
   > >>
   > >> regards from good old germany
   > >>
   > >> Juergen
   > >>
  > >
  > >The clicking is usually the starter solenoid getting enough "electricity"
  > >for it to pull the main contcats together, but then when teh motor tries
to
  > >draw a very high current the circuit "runs out of electricity" so the
  > >solenoid springs back, this breaks teh contacts, removing the load, so
all
  > >can start again. We often call it "machine gunning".
  > >
  > >The question is "why does it run out of electricity?".
  > >
  > >1. Flat/faulty battery - not in this case , because it works eventually.
  > >
  > >2. Short circuit in starter motor - as above.
  > >
  > >3. Dirty/loose battery connections - very likely if not regularly
  > >maintained.
  > >
  > >4. Loose crimp/solder between any terminal and its cable - visual
inspection
  > >and gard tugs.
  > >
  > >5. Loose terminals where fixed to components -a s above.
  > >
  > >6. Open circuit on solenoid hold in coil - possible, but mot likley
because
  > >it eventually starts as normal.
  > >
  > >
  > >If its a single click it is likely to be loose/dirty battery terminals or
  > >loose connections
 >
 > You missed number one on my check list - a corroded battery switch.

Quiet right - thats what comes of answering marine questions between
vehicle classes
TB<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: starter problems 

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:10:22 +0100, "Tony Brooks"
<marine RemoveThis @reading-college.ac.uk> wrote:

  >> You missed number one on my check list - a corroded battery switch.
 >
 >Quiet right - thats what comes of answering marine questions between
 >vehicle classes

It's only number one on my list, because it took me three months to
find it, the only time I had the same problem, mainly because it
wasn't on anybody else's checklist and because the problem
disappeared as soon as I looked for it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: starter problems 

On Friday 30 April 2004 6:30 am in uk.rec.boats.motor Jürgen Spelter wrote:

 > Hi,
 >
 > I have an old dutch canal boat with the good old mercedes OM 636 engine.
 > Engine works pretty well, but starting is a problem. After pre-heating the
 > engine some times starter doesn`t work, some times starter works very
 > well. When starter doesn`t work, I hear a noise coming from the starter.
 > It is a little clicking noise, but starter doesn`t work. If I try starting
 > several times, starter works suddenly. Sometimes I have to try it 3 or 4
 > times, sometimes I have to try it oftener.
 >
 > Has anybody same experiences or a tip for solving that problem?

This is a known issue with Mercedes vans which use the same engine.
The thin wire going to the starter motor actuates a solenoid which
throws the cog forward into the flywheel and then, at the end of its
travel, closes the contacts for the heavy current to the motor.

The contacts gradually erode due to arcing and eventually they fail
to connect reliably. A replacement starter is the only solution but
first check the other possible causes such as loose or corroded wiring.

Remove the starter from the engine and check that the cog assembly
is free to move on the shaft. Sometimes the grease on the shaft dries
and makes it stiff, some oil will fix this.
Next secure the starter to a bench with a vice or clamp and connect
it directly to well charged battery. Connect the frame to the
negative terminal and the thick cable connector to the positive
terminal. Now short the positive to the small terminal, if the
starter does not throw and spin reliably every time it needs to be
replaced. If this test works OK the starter is probably good and
you have a wiring and/or battery problem.

BTW, most motor spares shops will supply an exchange reconditioned
starter. These are cheaper than the Mercedes van dealer and MUCH
cheaper than marine engine suppliers.


--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: starter problems 

I would suggest trying the starter motor brushes, As soon as they wear past
a certain length the spring can no longer push them in to the commutator.
Have had the problem many times with cars and a set of brushes for a few
pound is a cheap fix.
Bri


"Jürgen Spelter" <juergen.spelter.DeleteThis@uni-essen.de> wrote in message
news:c6so3n$favid$1@ID-225577.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > Hi,
 >
 > I have an old dutch canal boat with the good old mercedes OM 636 engine.
 > Engine works pretty well, but starting is a problem. After pre-heating the
 > engine some times starter doesn`t work, some times starter works very
well.
 > When starter doesn`t work, I hear a noise coming from the starter. It is a
 > little clicking noise, but starter doesn`t work. If I try starting several
 > times, starter works suddenly. Sometimes I have to try it 3 or 4 times,
 > sometimes I have to try it oftener.
 >
 > Has anybody same experiences or a tip for solving that problem?
 >
 > regards from good old germany
 >
 > Juergen
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: starter problems