How far should the rudder turn?

all thumbs wrote:
> I'm wondering if I have the quadrant set up right. At full stop on the
> quadrant, looking at the rudder shows it's only turned about 45
> degrees. Is this correct? Is that some theoretical limit of effective
> angle or something? Thanks.

That would depend upon what you want the rudder to do. . .
Turn the boat? 45 degrees is a good number. Stop the boat, (or keep
the boat from moving after a tack) 45 isn't enough.

I see people trying to tack out of the channel holding the tiller "hard
over" all the time. Often these are the guys who never accelerate after
tacking enough to make it to the other side of the channel.
 >> Stay informed about: How far should the rudder turn? 

'Thumbs',

As Jim asked, '. . .what do you want to do?' . If it's a fast turn, it's
actually quicker to 'foot' a little bit for speed, then ease into the turn
and 'meet her' coming out. A *hard* turn to max rudder will actually act as
a 'break' to your forward momentum.

Use some tape and mark 15, 30, and 45 degree locations on your wheel {since
you said 'quadrant' I presume you aren't using a tiller}. Then try tacking
using them, and different entry & exit techniques. Take notes and see which
works best for YOUR boat.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Jim" <jim DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dhI9g.2189$x4.16@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> all thumbs wrote:
> > I'm wondering if I have the quadrant set up right. At full stop on the
> > quadrant, looking at the rudder shows it's only turned about 45
> > degrees. Is this correct? Is that some theoretical limit of effective
> > angle or something? Thanks.
>
> That would depend upon what you want the rudder to do. . .
> Turn the boat? 45 degrees is a good number. Stop the boat, (or keep
> the boat from moving after a tack) 45 isn't enough.
>
> I see people trying to tack out of the channel holding the tiller "hard
> over" all the time. Often these are the guys who never accelerate after
> tacking enough to make it to the other side of the channel.
>
 >> Stay informed about: How far should the rudder turn? 

Just yanking the tiller over may
serve some, but a sensitive analysis of the dynamics can be
educational. Instead of horsing the tiller, one moves it smoothly,
feeling it's bite in the water so that it is never stalled, using the
foreward momentum acting on the rudder to convert boatspeed efficiently
into angular momentum, one is then apropos actually able to contribute
to accelleration once the head is around, by coupling the rotational
momentum back into the boatspeed, by using the tiller skillfully as a
wing so that once the boat is turning, carefully considered control of
the tiller ensures that it's sideways motion is translated into
foreward thrust instead of stalled drag. It's a seat of the pants
thing, kind of related to driving a car smoothly as opposed to jerking
the wheel around until everyone is carsick.
 >> Stay informed about: How far should the rudder turn? 

If you want to see how much 'angular momentum'
a boat does store, let the tiller go in the middle of
what would be the sharpest turn you can manage
and see how much further it turns.
Them long hulls is built for going forward, not for
spinning.
 >> Stay informed about: How far should the rudder turn? 

(Not knowing the boat) I would gess that 45 degrees is plenty. I have a
tiller, which would allow 180 degrees, and I think I rarely ever use
more than 30.
 >> Stay informed about: How far should the rudder turn? 

My boat has short bilge keels and will happily spin around until it
drills a hole in the water.

I can feel the coupling I mentioned earlier, and if you have a boat
which turns easily, you might too, if you are not er, "insensitive."

My HR28 had a relatively short keel, and it too reacted in the same
way.

I built a wheel steering system from sewer pipe etc for it, and had
about 45 degrees deflection, as I do comfortably with the tiller on the
Tyler 29, and hardly ever need or needed to use full deflection.

The rudder is actually a brake. We steer the boat by adjusting the
sail balance and trim.

Both had counterbalanced rudders, and neither would hold a course
unless very carefully set up in steady conditions and only with the
tiller or wheel lashed. If either started to turn and was let go, it
would just about screw itself right down into a whirlpool.

Management of angular momentum is something to learn, like feeling the
groove, but is more delicate.

Terry K
 >> Stay informed about: How far should the rudder turn? 

>Management of angular momentum is something to learn, like feeling the
>groove, but is more delicate.
>
>Terry K

Just as physics?
 >> Stay informed about: How far should the rudder turn? 

On Sun, 14 May 2006 04:23:31 GMT, all thumbs <gowaymon.RemoveThis@last.com>
wrote:

>I'm wondering if I have the quadrant set up right. At full stop on the
>quadrant, looking at the rudder shows it's only turned about 45
>degrees. Is this correct? Is that some theoretical limit of effective
>angle or something? Thanks.

Well, I guess I'm set up as per the maker intended then.
I posted in panic and should have mentioned this is a sailing vessel
with a balanced rudder, inboard engine driving a single prop and wheel
steering controlled by pulley's and cable to a quadrant over a run of
about 7 feet. The quad is split in half and there's a gap at one of
the splits. It looks like someone drilled the center hole through the
rudder post incorrectly so the two halves don't line up properly.
Also, I see no way to attach the cables to the quadrant. Maybe they
pass in a loop and just connect with a turnbuckle half way between the
binnacle and the quad? I thought they would be made off the quadrant
itself. The components were in a rusted mess at the bottom of the
bilge. Everything is cleaned up now the puzzle of assembly has loosely
begun. This exercise has been deferred pending further information.
Now it's on to battery boxes for the moment. (how could it take all
day to make a freakin' box?) Thanks everyone, keep paddling.
 >> Stay informed about: How far should the rudder turn?