real quiet

On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look....TakeThisOut@my.sig> wrote:
> Bill Tuthill wrote:
> > Siskuwihane <Siskuwih....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> >> in 2008.
>
> > That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> > Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>
> > The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
>
> > Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
> > and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
>
> > Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
> > on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
> > The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
> > the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
> > get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
>
> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
> ).

Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
maintenance didi each require?

Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
mistake over and over!

John Kuthe...
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

On Apr 16, 3:07 am, Wilko <look....DeleteThis@my.sig> wrote:
> JohnKuthe wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look....DeleteThis@my.sig> wrote:
> >> Bill Tuthill wrote:
> >>> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> >>>> in 2008.
> >>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> >>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
> >>> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
> >>> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
> >>> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
> >>> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
> >>> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
> >>> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
> >>> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
> >>> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
> >> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
> >> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
> >> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
> >> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
> >> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
> >> ).
>
> > Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
> > many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
> > maintenance didi each require?
>
> > Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
> > they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
> > mistake over and over!
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
> amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
> another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
> in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
> year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
> third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.

Must be nice! I guess United Statesians aren't the only ones who are
filthily rich, eh?

John Kuthe...
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

On Apr 16, 4:07 pm, Wilko <look....TakeThisOut@my.sig> wrote:
> JohnKuthe wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look....TakeThisOut@my.sig> wrote:
> >> Bill Tuthill wrote:
> >>> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> >>>> in 2008.
> >>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> >>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
> >>> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
> >>> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
> >>> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
> >>> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
> >>> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
> >>> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
> >>> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
> >>> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
> >> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
> >> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
> >> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
> >> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
> >> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
> >> ).
>
> > Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
> > many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
> > maintenance didi each require?
>
> > Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
> > they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
> > mistake over and over!
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
> amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
> another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
> in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
> year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
> third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.
>
> --
>

So do you think owning is preferable to leasing? If this was a lease
car, you'd be on the verge of replacing it with a new car. It seems
that you're committed to driving your current car into the dirt now.

--riverman
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

JohnKuthe wrote:
> On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look... DeleteThis @my.sig> wrote:
>> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>>> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
>>>> in 2008.
>>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
>>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>>> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
>>> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
>>> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
>>> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
>>> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
>>> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
>>> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
>>> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
>> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
>> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
>> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
>> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
>> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
>> ).
>
> Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
> many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
> maintenance didi each require?
>
> Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
> they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
> mistake over and over!
>
> John Kuthe...
>
>
The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.


--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

riverman wrote:
> On Apr 16, 4:07 pm, Wilko <look....TakeThisOut@my.sig> wrote:
>> JohnKuthe wrote:
>>> On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look....TakeThisOut@my.sig> wrote:
>>>> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>>>>> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
>>>>>> in 2008.
>>>>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
>>>>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>>>>> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
>>>>> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
>>>>> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
>>>>> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
>>>>> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
>>>>> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
>>>>> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
>>>>> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
>>>> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
>>>> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
>>>> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
>>>> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
>>>> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
>>>> ).
>>> Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
>>> many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
>>> maintenance didi each require?
>>> Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
>>> they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
>>> mistake over and over!
>>> John Kuthe...
>> The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
>> amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
>> another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
>> in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
>> year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
>> third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.
>>
>> --
>>
>
> So do you think owning is preferable to leasing? If this was a lease
> car, you'd be on the verge of replacing it with a new car. It seems
> that you're committed to driving your current car into the dirt now.

I think it depends. I became a student after working for the past 7
years, so leasing is not an option any more. Also, I stopped driving to
work every working day and I stopped driving to the Czech Republic every
second weekend, which cut my annual miles from 65K to roughly 10K now.
In my view leasing in this country is only interesting if:
-your company pays for the lease contract with a tax free personal budget,
-you can afford it and
-if you drive (a lot) more than what your lease contract is for.

In my case, I'd pay the lease company (through the company I worked for)
for 25K miles a year and drive well over 65K miles a year. If I had to
pay the lease company out of my own pocket, I'd pay using after taxes
money (bye bye 42%) but still have to pay the full amount (1150 euro
incl. fuel per month, add roughly 33% for the price in US$).

I can afford my own car, since I drive miles less now than what a
minimum lease contract goes for and since this car is used. I couldn't
afford the 65K miles a year, especially not out of my non-existent paycheck.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

JohnKuthe wrote:
> On Apr 16, 3:07 am, Wilko <look....TakeThisOut@my.sig> wrote:
>> The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
>> amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
>> another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
>> in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
>> year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
>> third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.
>
> Must be nice! I guess United Statesians aren't the only ones who are
> filthily rich, eh?

Hmmm, I bet that you make a lot more money than me this year, John!

In my view, keeping a relationship going, especially a long distance one
like I had, requires investing in it, even if that means investing most
of what you earn. In my case I invested a lot of time, money and energy
to do the 600mile (one way) trip every second weekend for so many years.
On top of that I had dirt cheap living accomodations (76 euro/month rent
for one tiny room).

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>>
> Yes they did move it inside. It also doesn't come with the little
> picnic table that covers the rear storage area (now spare tire
> storage). Not that it would be a deal breaker with me, but it's very
> convenient having that "waterproof" under-the-picnic table storage
> area where I can throw wet things.

Grumble.

> I've only got 90k on my '99 so I'll hold on to it for a while longer.

Good plan.

I just did a Compare Models with a Toyota RAV4 on the Consumer Reports
website. The RAV4 4-cylinder gets better mileage in the city, 17 vs 15,
but the same 29 mpg on the highway. The RAV4 has much more cargo space,
probably due to the spare tire design. The RAV4 is faster, 9.8 vs 10.6
seconds to 60 mph. In the gov't crash test, the CR-V scored better for
front passenger safety, excellent vs good. The RAV4 is slightly longer
but weighs less.
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

"Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:461e78de@news.meer.net...
> Matt Clara <hey.wood.y DeleteThis @buzz.off> wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
>>> of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.
>>>
>> I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big
>> enough
>> and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a
>> Volkswagen
>> Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual
>> transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
>> Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel.
>> The
>> engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of
>> the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on
>> goin...
>> I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been
>> a
>> better choice.
>
> TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel?
>
> Currently I have a Trooper that never gets over 21 mpg. If I needed to
> replace it before the 2008 Highlander Hybrid appears, I guess my choice
> would be the Ford Escape hybrid or Toyota RAV4, both 29 mpg.
>
> Jetta wagon isn't really big enough for rafting.
>

What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?

--
www.mattclara.com
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

Matt Clara <hey.wood.y.DeleteThis@buzz.off> wrote:
>
> What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?

The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel engine
next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
might get better mileage, especially in town.

Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental minivan
last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

Bill Tuthill <ccreekin.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in news:46990df7@news.meer.net:

> Matt Clara <hey.wood.y.TakeThisOut@buzz.off> wrote:
>>
>> What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?
>
> The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
> I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
> enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel engine
> next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
> might get better mileage, especially in town.

Yea, I can't wait to spend $35 for a new car.
>
> Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
> better than any minivan.

If I recall, the Escape Hybrid only gets about $36MPG. For about $10 less
than the MSRP for the Escape one could get a Jeep Patriot which is supposed
ot get 29MPG.
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

"Matt Clara" <hey.wood.y RemoveThis @buzz.off> wrote in message
news:UMSdncyoPfgYcQXbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@comcast.com...
> "Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:461e78de@news.meer.net...
>> Matt Clara <hey.wood.y RemoveThis @buzz.off> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
>>>> of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.
>>>>
>>> I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big
>>> enough
>>> and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a
>>> Volkswagen
>>> Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with
>>> manual
>>> transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
>>> Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel.
>>> The
>>> engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest
>>> of
>>> the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on
>>> goin...
>>> I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been
>>> a
>>> better choice.
>>
>> TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel?


Yes, it means diesel, and, no, I've not tried biodiesel. It's a 50 minute
round trip drive to the nearest service station selling it. I do have a
bumper sticker that says BIODIESEL: no war required. I will make that trip
one of these days before too long (before it gets cold--I hear the shtuff
gels up something fierce in cold weather).

One more plus for diesel over hybrid--diesel doesn't dog out in the
mountains.

--
www.mattclara.com
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

John Fereira <jaf30.TakeThisOut@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> If I recall, the Escape Hybrid only gets about 36MPG.

According to Consumer Reports, 22 city 29 highway. The RAV4 (both engines)
gets the same on the highway, but only 15-17 in town.

> For about $10 less than the MSRP for the Escape one could get
> a Jeep Patriot which is supposed to get 29MPG.

Thanks for the heads up! Consumer Reports has not yet tested the Patriot
and I'm not inclined to believe EPA ratings, so who knows about 29 MPG.
However one thing that excites me is availablilty of manual transmission!
For some reason (perhaps going downhill to put-in?) boaters seem to prefer
manual.

I'm still bamboozled by "automatic" transmission on our Prius. It's odd
that you put the lever up/forward for reverse and down/backward for drive.
But you can't argue with 50 MPG.
 >> Stay informed about: real quiet 

Bill Tuthill <ccreekin DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in news:469ba7d9@news.meer.net:

> John Fereira <jaf30 DeleteThis @cornell.edu> wrote:
>>
>> If I recall, the Escape Hybrid only gets about 36MPG.
>
> According to Consumer Reports, 22 city 29 highway.

22/29MPG for a hybrid is pathetic. I just got back from NYC last night and
saw quite a few Escape hybrids used for taxis. I also saw tons of Toyota
Highlander hybrids.

> The RAV4 (both
> engines) gets the same on the highway, but only 15-17 in town.
>
>> For about $10 less than the MSRP for the Escape one could get a Jeep
>> Patriot which is supposed to get 29MPG.
>
> Thanks for the heads up! Consumer Reports has not yet tested the
> Patriot and I'm not inclined to believe EPA ratings, so who knows about
> 29 MPG. However one thing that excites me is availablilty of manual
> transmission! For some reason (perhaps going downhill to put-in?)
> boaters seem to prefer manual.

The manual transmission version also gets (according to Jeep) 3MPG better
than the automatic. CR has rated the Compass, which is supposed to be very
similar. I'm more interested in the Patriot because I would prefer
something with better off road capabilities. I wouldn't use them much but
there are a lot of seasonal roads in the area that I would feel more
comfortable on in a Patriot than the Compass.
>
> I'm still bamboozled by "automatic" transmission on our Prius. It's
> odd that you put the lever up/forward for reverse and down/backward for
> drive. But you can't argue with 50 MPG.

We averaged 46MPG in our civic hybrid on our trip to NYC over the weekend
(about 530 total miles).
>
>
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