How many boats for a race ?

In article <d3js99$dcm$1@titan.btinternet.com>, Robert Whitehouse
<bob.whitehouse RemoveThis @btinternet.com> writes
>My club has had a longstanding rule that at least two boats must come to the
>starting area in order to constitute a race. I.e. if one just boat turns
>up, the race is not counted when compiling the series total score, and the
>number of scheduled races is reduced by one.
>
>I have just taken over scoring for my club and thought that i'd better have
>a read through the new 2005 RRS (first time for a few years !).
>
> Everything (that I can find) in the RRS suggests that just one boat is
>enough to constitute a race (see rule 89.3(a) and rule 35).
>
>Is this deliberate ? - Is my club rule adrift from the RRS ? - have I missed
>something ?
>

I think every club I've been in has allowed one boat to constitute a
race, otherwise you penalise the guy (or gal) who turns up when no one
else does.


Adrian
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 >> Stay informed about: How many boats for a race ? 

Adrian Simpson wrote:
>
> I think every club I've been in has allowed one boat to constitute a
> race, otherwise you penalise the guy (or gal) who turns up when no one
> else does.
>
>
> Adrian

Potentially the worst situation is at the end of a series where one boat
requires a 1st or 2nd to win the series - and no-one else turns up.

Andy
 >> Stay informed about: How many boats for a race ? 

Thanks Adrian, Walt

I'll raise the issue at the next comittee meeting but at least I now know
where we stand WRT RRS.

Bob


"Robert Whitehouse" <bob.whitehouse.DeleteThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d3js99$dcm$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> My club has had a longstanding rule that at least two boats must come to
the
> starting area in order to constitute a race. I.e. if one just boat turns
> up, the race is not counted when compiling the series total score, and
the
> number of scheduled races is reduced by one.
>
> I have just taken over scoring for my club and thought that i'd better
have
> a read through the new 2005 RRS (first time for a few years !).
>
> Everything (that I can find) in the RRS suggests that just one boat is
> enough to constitute a race (see rule 89.3(a) and rule 35).
>
> Is this deliberate ? - Is my club rule adrift from the RRS ? - have I
missed
> something ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Bob W
>
> RS400 - 525
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: How many boats for a race ? 

Correct, I sailed in races as I grew up. You cannot penalize the person for
showing up, even if theyre the only one. However unless stated otherwise
they shouldnt be able to win by default, instead they should have to
complete the entire course as usual.
But as someone said you have control to alter the rules as long as you
inform the people with the reggatta instructions.


"Adrian Simpson" <news.DeleteThis@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eyCY+0HbcYXCFwK$@ffoil.org.uk...
> In article <d3js99$dcm$1@titan.btinternet.com>, Robert Whitehouse
> <bob.whitehouse.DeleteThis@btinternet.com> writes
> >My club has had a longstanding rule that at least two boats must come to
the
> >starting area in order to constitute a race. I.e. if one just boat turns
> >up, the race is not counted when compiling the series total score, and
the
> >number of scheduled races is reduced by one.
> >
> >I have just taken over scoring for my club and thought that i'd better
have
> >a read through the new 2005 RRS (first time for a few years !).
> >
> > Everything (that I can find) in the RRS suggests that just one boat is
> >enough to constitute a race (see rule 89.3(a) and rule 35).
> >
> >Is this deliberate ? - Is my club rule adrift from the RRS ? - have I
missed
> >something ?
> >
>
> I think every club I've been in has allowed one boat to constitute a
> race, otherwise you penalise the guy (or gal) who turns up when no one
> else does.
>
>
> Adrian
> --
> To Reply :
> replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil"
> Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
> Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.
 >> Stay informed about: How many boats for a race ? 

Sebastian Miles wrote:

> Correct, I sailed in races as I grew up. You cannot penalize the person for
> showing up, even if theyre the only one. However unless stated otherwise
> they shouldnt be able to win by default, instead they should have to
> complete the entire course as usual.

Right, to get scored as first place, the boat must complete the course
(in the allowed time limit if one is specified). Otherwise,
she gets scored as DNF, DNS, RET, OCS, or DSQ all of which counts as 2nd
place. The other boats in the series get scored DNC, which counts as
N+1, where N is the total number of boats participating in the series.

See Appendix A, section A9.

> But as someone said you have control to alter the rules as long as you
> inform the people with the reggatta instructions.

Yup. If you don't like the default rules, write your sailing
instructions to change them. Just be sure to write them down.




--
//-Walt
//
//
 >> Stay informed about: How many boats for a race ? 

This is probably waaaaaay more nitpicking than the topic deserves, but
89.3(a) indicates:

"A race shall be scored if it is not abandoned and if one boat sails the
course in compliance with 28.1 and finishes within the time limit, if
any, even if she retires after finishing or is disqualified."

There is no statement that a race not meeting these conditions cannot be
scored, but that would be a reasonable interpretation. Otherwise races
could be scored without any boats ever leaving the harbor.

At least one boat must finish, so it would appear that DSQ and RAF would
count, but DNF, DNS, and OCS would not. Appendix A describes how to
handle scores, but it does not address when a race should be scored.

As always, put it in writing, and you can do almost anything you wish.

Regards,
Gene

Walt wrote:
> Sebastian Miles wrote:
>
>> Correct, I sailed in races as I grew up. You cannot penalize the
>> person for
>> showing up, even if theyre the only one. However unless stated otherwise
>> they shouldnt be able to win by default, instead they should have to
>> complete the entire course as usual.
>
>
> Right, to get scored as first place, the boat must complete the course
> (in the allowed time limit if one is specified). Otherwise,
> she gets scored as DNF, DNS, RET, OCS, or DSQ all of which counts as 2nd
> place. The other boats in the series get scored DNC, which counts as
> N+1, where N is the total number of boats participating in the series.
>
> See Appendix A, section A9.
>
>> But as someone said you have control to alter the rules as long as you
>> inform the people with the reggatta instructions.
>
>
> Yup. If you don't like the default rules, write your sailing
> instructions to change them. Just be sure to write them down.
 >> Stay informed about: How many boats for a race ? 

Gene Fuller wrote:

> This is probably waaaaaay more nitpicking than the topic deserves, but
> 89.3(a) indicates:

I think you're right to nitpick my assertion that the lone boat would
automatically get a 2nd. I don't think it's quite that simple. (see below)

> "A race shall be scored if it is not abandoned and if one boat sails the
> course in compliance with 28.1 and finishes within the time limit, if
> any, even if she retires after finishing or is disqualified."
>
> There is no statement that a race not meeting these conditions cannot be
> scored, but that would be a reasonable interpretation.

What's a reasonable interpretation for you may be jumping to conclusions
for someone else. (c:

89.3(a) states when you *must* score a race, but doesn't say when you
*can't* score a race. I wouldn't read "can't" into it.

> Otherwise races could be scored without any boats ever leaving the
> harbor.

I think this has happened. For instance at a midwinters a couple of
years ago when some classes decided that it was too nasty to go out; the
race was scored and the entire class got a DNC for the race. I recall
reading about it at the time, but my memory is a bit fuzzy and
unfortunately I can't find a reference at the moment.


> At least one boat must finish, so it would appear that DSQ and RAF would
> count, but DNF, DNS, and OCS would not. Appendix A describes how to
> handle scores, but it does not address when a race should be scored.

As I see it, if at least one boat manages to finish without the RC
abandoning the race, the race *must* count.

However, the RC has broad latitude to abandon the race - for any reason
whatsoever if it's abandoned before the start (27.3), or for almost any
reason while the race is in progress. From Rule 32.1:

32.1 After the starting signal, the race committee may abandon the
race ...
(e) for any other reason directly affecting the safety or
fairness of the competition.

So, it appears that the RC would be well within it's bounds to abandon
the race if not enough competitors show up. And if only one boat turns
up and retires immediately after the gun, the RC could abandon the race
instead of awarding that boat a 2nd.

> As always, put it in writing, and you can do almost anything you wish.

Yeah, that's the bottom line.

--
//-Walt
//
//
 >> Stay informed about: How many boats for a race ?