open boat self-steering

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:33:18 -0800, Arco <nospam.DeleteThis@nospam.net> wrote:

 >I'm shopping for a light, open, simple sailboat that I can use for
 >cruising/camping trips on big lakes and coastal waters. I'm most
 >interested in the 17' designs by Drascombe and Norseboat.

Look for a retired Lightning.

 >http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk
 >http://www.norseboat.com
 >
 >My old 40' sloop had a Monitor windvane - a fantastic piece of
 >equipment.
 >
 >Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
 >that could be used on a 17' open boat?
 >
 >Thanks in advance.

Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

Smoking in a bar is like peeing in a punchbowl.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

Try the 200$ sailboat
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html#Top" target="_blank">http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html#Top</a>

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:33:18 -0800, Arco <nospam.TakeThisOut@nospam.net> wrote:

 >I'm shopping for a light, open, simple sailboat that I can use for
 >cruising/camping trips on big lakes and coastal waters. I'm most
 >interested in the 17' designs by Drascombe and Norseboat.
 >http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk
 >http://www.norseboat.com
 >
 >My old 40' sloop had a Monitor windvane - a fantastic piece of
 >equipment.
 >
 >Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
 >that could be used on a 17' open boat?
 >
 >Thanks in advance.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

Well - I'm not looking for a boat design. Let me try to make myself
more clear.

Subject: OPEN BOAT SELF-STEERING

Question: Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering
solution that could be used on a 17' open boat?




On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:23:50 -0500, Barlovento
<gkaralusnospam.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net> wrote:

 >Try the 200$ sailboat
 >http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html#Top
 >
 >On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:33:18 -0800, Arco <nospam.RemoveThis@nospam.net> wrote:
 >
  >>I'm shopping for a light, open, simple sailboat that I can use for
  >>cruising/camping trips on big lakes and coastal waters. I'm most
  >>interested in the 17' designs by Drascombe and Norseboat.
  >>http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk
  >>http://www.norseboat.com
  >>
  >>My old 40' sloop had a Monitor windvane - a fantastic piece of
  >>equipment.
  >>
  >>Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
  >>that could be used on a 17' open boat?
  >>
  >>Thanks in advance.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

Try http://www.uswayfarer.org/ for a 16 footer that has traversed the seas.
RichG

--
RichG
http://groups.msn.com/CarolinaSkiffOwners
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

[from a New Zealand site - Boat Books Ltd. ]

WIND-VANE SELF STEERING
By Bill Belcher. Pbk, perfect bound, 240mm x 170mm, 128 pages,
monochrome plans and tables.
This classic book describes the theory, principles and practice of
wind vanes for self steering. It tells the blue water sailor how to
construct his own wind-vane self steering system, including full
working drawings.
Wind-vane Self Steering is generally regarded world wide as the
definitive work on this topic and currently, as far as we know, is the
only such work generally available.
NZ$39.95 + Delivery


Brian Whatcott Altus OK


On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 18:18:18 -0800, Arco <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote:

 >Well - I'm not looking for a boat design. Let me try to make myself
 >more clear.
 >
 >Subject: OPEN BOAT SELF-STEERING
 >
 >Question: Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering
 >solution that could be used on a 17' open boat?
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:23:50 -0500, Barlovento
 ><gkaralusnospam RemoveThis @bellsouth.net> wrote:
 >
  >>Try the 200$ sailboat
  >>http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/sailboat.html#Top
  >>
  >>On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:33:18 -0800, Arco <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.net> wrote:
  >>
   >>>I'm shopping for a light, open, simple sailboat that I can use for
   >>>cruising/camping trips on big lakes and coastal waters. I'm most
   >>>interested in the 17' designs by Drascombe and Norseboat.
   >>>http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk
   >>>http://www.norseboat.com
   >>>
   >>>My old 40' sloop had a Monitor windvane - a fantastic piece of
   >>>equipment.
   >>>
   >>>Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
   >>>that could be used on a 17' open boat?
   >>>
   >>>Thanks in advance.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

Try this link.....

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?TTL=self%2Dsteerin
g&userid=359L8PF8NR

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

Arco (nospam@nospam.net) writes:

 > Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
 > that could be used on a 17' open boat?

The crew weight issue is interesting. I sail a couple of small boats which
do not have rudders. There is some resolution of forces based on body
weight, boat displacement, sail area, and wind strength which determines
whether a boat can be sailed with or without a rudder or wind vane. It
should be possible to work it out mathematically. I find it easy (and
comfortable) to sit on the bottom of the boat facing forward and steer by
leaning from side to side while working the main sheet. When close hauled
with the sail pulled in tight I sit still. On a boat the size of a
Wayfarer or Albacore (15 ft, 250 lb) I'm sure I'd find that difficut to
do. I've done "wet assed" sailing in Albacores. It isn't enough to sit in
the middle of the boat, you have to get your weight out over the side. The
alternative to "sitting out" is to let out the sails to reduce power. A
wind vane will not let out the sails. However if you can depower
the sails by reefing, and accept lower speed, it should be possible.
Performance would depend on the variability of the wind. Might not work on
gusty days. Some cruising sailors simply tie off the tiller with shock
cord in steady winds. On a small boat you'd have to tie off the tiller and sit
still, like I do in my rudderless boats.



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 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

What type of rudderless boats are you sailing? Spent a long weekend on
the east coast of Spain a few years ago (near Barcelona) and saw their
rudderless cats. Wanted to sail on one SOOO badly. There was also a
writeup in WB (I think) on those same boat, showed one of them
pitch-poling 8-( They were a rather narrow (by Hobie standards) cat.

Pirate_Dave

In article <c2nb6i$694$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, William R. Watt wrote:
 > Arco (nospam@nospam.net) writes:
 >
  >> Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
  >> that could be used on a 17' open boat?
 >
 > The crew weight issue is interesting. I sail a couple of small boats which
 > do not have rudders. There is some resolution of forces based on body
 > weight, boat displacement, sail area, and wind strength which determines
 > whether a boat can be sailed with or without a rudder or wind vane. It
 > should be possible to work it out mathematically. I find it easy (and
 > comfortable) to sit on the bottom of the boat facing forward and steer by
 > leaning from side to side while working the main sheet. When close hauled
 > with the sail pulled in tight I sit still. On a boat the size of a
 > Wayfarer or Albacore (15 ft, 250 lb) I'm sure I'd find that difficut to
 > do. I've done "wet assed" sailing in Albacores. It isn't enough to sit in
 > the middle of the boat, you have to get your weight out over the side. The
 > alternative to "sitting out" is to let out the sails to reduce power. A
 > wind vane will not let out the sails. However if you can depower
 > the sails by reefing, and accept lower speed, it should be possible.
 > Performance would depend on the variability of the wind. Might not work on
 > gusty days. Some cruising sailors simply tie off the tiller with shock
 > cord in steady winds. On a small boat you'd have to tie off the tiller and sit
 > still, like I do in my rudderless boats.
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 > William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
 > homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</a>
 > warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

 > Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
 > that could be used on a 17' open boat?

For a "do it yourself" solution look here:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mindspring.com/~waltmur/Self-Steering/" target="_blank">http://www.mindspring.com/~waltmur/Self-Steering/</a>

There is also a forum about windvanes...
see:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cruisenews.net/cgi-bin/windvane/windvane.pl" target="_blank">http://www.cruisenews.net/cgi-bin/windvane/windvane.pl</a>
In the forum posts you will find several links to different windvane
variants...

Paolo Zini

from Pisa, Italy<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

Dave Cannell (dcannell@unix01.voicenet.com) writes:
 > What type of rudderless boats are you sailing?

look in my website under Boats, then DogSkiff and Loonie

I go the idea from TF Jones ("Boats to Go") who sailed an open kayak
without a rudder but only downwind. I wanted to have a boat I could cartop
and portage like a canoe so I left off the rudder and tiller to save
weight and space and to have one less thing to carry. Both of my boats
sail upwind. I worked it out that because there's no rudder you have the
daggerboard at the leach of the sail instead of 1/3 back from the luff.
I've had the DogSkiff out in a chop and was surprized by its steadiness.
The only problem is I have to use a paddle to tack and its a struggle in a
stiff breeze waves to get the bow around, and waves make it worse. Maybe
with a better sail ...

There are photos somewhere on the Internet of the St Lawrence skiff
rudderless sailing races many years ago.



 >... Spent a long weekend on
 > the east coast of Spain a few years ago (near Barcelona) and saw their
 > rudderless cats. Wanted to sail on one SOOO badly. There was also a
 > writeup in WB (I think) on those same boat, showed one of them
 > pitch-poling 8-( They were a rather narrow (by Hobie standards) cat.
 >
 > Pirate_Dave
 >
 > In article <c2nb6i$694$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, William R. Watt wrote:
  >> Arco (nospam@nospam.net) writes:
  >>
   >>> Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
   >>> that could be used on a 17' open boat?
  >>
  >> The crew weight issue is interesting. I sail a couple of small boats which
  >> do not have rudders. There is some resolution of forces based on body
  >> weight, boat displacement, sail area, and wind strength which determines
  >> whether a boat can be sailed with or without a rudder or wind vane. It
  >> should be possible to work it out mathematically. I find it easy (and
  >> comfortable) to sit on the bottom of the boat facing forward and steer by
  >> leaning from side to side while working the main sheet. When close hauled
  >> with the sail pulled in tight I sit still. On a boat the size of a
  >> Wayfarer or Albacore (15 ft, 250 lb) I'm sure I'd find that difficut to
  >> do. I've done "wet assed" sailing in Albacores. It isn't enough to sit in
  >> the middle of the boat, you have to get your weight out over the side. The
  >> alternative to "sitting out" is to let out the sails to reduce power. A
  >> wind vane will not let out the sails. However if you can depower
  >> the sails by reefing, and accept lower speed, it should be possible.
  >> Performance would depend on the variability of the wind. Might not work on
  >> gusty days. Some cruising sailors simply tie off the tiller with shock
  >> cord in steady winds. On a small boat you'd have to tie off the tiller and sit
  >> still, like I do in my rudderless boats.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> --
  >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >> William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
  >> homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</a>
  >> warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned


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warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

  > > Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
  > > that could be used on a 17' open boat?

Navik's are fairly light (about 35 lbs) but I think they would be overkill
for that size boat. Perhaps a simple sheet to tiller rig (bungee cord)
would be o.k., given that you probably won't be sailing it overnight?


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering 

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'll start by expermenting with a
sheet-to-tiller system.

Here's a couple of good references with pics that I found:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bright.net/~htmills/SelfSteering.html" target="_blank">www.bright.net/~htmills/SelfSteering.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml" target="_blank">www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml</a>




On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:01:47 -0800, "Evan Gatehouse" <NONE DeleteThis @sasaf.bobo>
wrote:

 >
   >> > Can anyone recommend a good windvane and/or self-steering solution
   >> > that could be used on a 17' open boat?
 >
 >Navik's are fairly light (about 35 lbs) but I think they would be overkill
 >for that size boat. Perhaps a simple sheet to tiller rig (bungee cord)
 >would be o.k., given that you probably won't be sailing it overnight?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: open boat self-steering