what material to use?

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:46:02 +1030, "R Whellum" <f.TakeThisOut@nosite.com> wrote:

 >glass fibre absorbs water which reacts with some chemicals that can result
 >in blisters, timber swells with water absorbtion .. can rot... be attacked
 >by worms, steel rusts and aluminium can corrode quickly, ferro cement ...
 >porous..corrosion prone....
 >So what is best to use?
 >It would seem that no material - even steel or aluminium is pure and so can
 >have problems, so it all comes down to cost of ownership over time.....but
 >no method guarantees the hull will be in good condition when you want to
 >sell in 5 - 10 years time. So is the best solution to hire ?

That's either the defeatist solution, or the "can't be bothered"
solution.

Consider: Working boats made of metal have been afloat for decades.
Our steel "workboat" at the club (a repurposed fishing boat some 22
feet in length) dates from 1948. So does the engine, which has been
overhauled three times. It just got a good grinding and a new paint
job. Looks great. Might last another 10-20 years before dropping
$80,000 for something new and similar makes sense.

Moral? Every material requires maintenance, and not necessarily more
or less, but of the proper type (inspection and coatings in the case
of steel, for instance) and the proper schedule (not two years after
you notice the chipping or five years after you spill acid in the
bilge).

Consider: I am 43. There are quite a number of fibreglass boats
sailing the seas older than me, and looking good. There are some ten
year old Carribean charter boats that look like crap. Both probably
sail well, and the newer boats probably sail better. Fibreglass isn't
indestructible, but it can take a lot of punishment and it's
relatively easy to fix, with the exception of serious blistering or
core rot in the deck. Most F/G hull problems are preventable by the
owner or are able to be fixed or even improved. My 1973 cruiser is
better than the day it hit the water, because I've put backing plates
everywhere and beefed up the tabbing and the chainplates. Easy.

Moral? Go sailing. Don't worry so much about resale value when in all
likelihood the boat will outlast you. Wood is a lovely material that
is perhaps the hardest in terms of upkeep but is the easiest in terms
of skill sets for the owner to fix...cold-molded wood is even better.

Hope this helps.

R.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: what material to use? 

"R Whellum" (f@nosite.com) writes:
 > glass fibre absorbs water which reacts with some chemicals that can result
 > in blisters, timber swells with water absorbtion .. can rot... be attacked
 > by worms, steel rusts and aluminium can corrode quickly, ferro cement ...
 > porous..corrosion prone....
 > So what is best to use?
 > It would seem that no material - even steel or aluminium is pure and so can
 > have problems, so it all comes down to cost of ownership over time.....but
 > no method guarantees the hull will be in good condition when you want to
 > sell in 5 - 10 years time. So is the best solution to hire ?

I've had the same problem with my house, car, computers, dog, and just
about everything else, even trees and shrubs which you'd think would look
after themselves. Thank goodness there's no wife and kids. By comparison
my small plywood boats made of the cheapest materials and from which I've
derived a ton of amusement are not much of a problem. But I think looking
back on it all, it's washing the dishes that has taken the most time and
provided the least enjoyment. I think the solution would be to abandon all
your worldly possessions and become a religious fanatic. Live the inner
life. Sit on the shore and contemplate all those recreational boat owners
out there on the water while reflecting on life and what it teaches, if
anything.



--
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 >> Stay informed about: what material to use? 

I have built aluminum, steel, wood, concrete and fiberglass boats.
Invariably the cost of construction of a hull is about the same in all of
these materials. Where one method has advantages there are always some
disadvantages. They typically balence at construction time. There are other
factors other than maintenance that will also influence your decision.
However, whatever you use, be absolutely certain that the design you choose
is optimized for that material. Never build a steel design in plastic or a
wood design in steel. Spend your money with an architect up front. It will
go along way to guarantee a successful project in the end.
Steve

"R Whellum" <f.RemoveThis@nosite.com> wrote in message
news:4193c886_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
 > glass fibre absorbs water which reacts with some chemicals that can result
 > in blisters, timber swells with water absorbtion .. can rot... be attacked
 > by worms, steel rusts and aluminium can corrode quickly, ferro cement ...
 > porous..corrosion prone....
 > So what is best to use?
 > It would seem that no material - even steel or aluminium is pure and so
 > can have problems, so it all comes down to cost of ownership over
 > time.....but no method guarantees the hull will be in good condition when
 > you want to sell in 5 - 10 years time. So is the best solution to hire ?
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: what material to use? 

In article <4193c886_1.TakeThisOut@news.iprimus.com.au>, R Whellum <f.TakeThisOut@nosite.com>
wrote:

 > glass fibre absorbs water which reacts with some chemicals that can result
 > in blisters, timber swells with water absorbtion .. can rot... be attacked
 > by worms, steel rusts and aluminium can corrode quickly, ferro cement ...
 > porous..corrosion prone....
 > So what is best to use?
 > It would seem that no material - even steel or aluminium is pure and so can
 > have problems, so it all comes down to cost of ownership over time.....but
 > no method guarantees the hull will be in good condition when you want to
 > sell in 5 - 10 years time. So is the best solution to hire ?

Many ways to look at it. All those maladies you mention are common with
those respective materials. Every boat needs constant care or it will
destroy itself.

The cost of constant repairs has to be allowed for and is different
with each type of boat. It would seem to me that, over the long term, a
well constructed production fiberglass boat has the greatest likelihood
to be in salable condition after 10 years with moderate maintainence.

Wood can last well, especially with modern materials. Steel and
aluminum do well, too. A zillion commercial boats can't be wrong!

raoul
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: what material to use? 

 > Many ways to look at it. All those maladies you mention are common with
 > those respective materials. Every boat needs constant care or it will
 > destroy itself.
NO! Thank goodness, boats don't destroy themselves, rather the sea does
that. Put your boat in a well heated and dry barn and it will last a
thousand years. But I'd rather go sailing with it
Victor

Not being completely serious about yourself also helps.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: what material to use? 

BTW, properly laminated glass does not absorb water.
Blisters result from moisture in the laminate but that happens when
the builder uses ultra cheap resin or has a bad mix like a chop gun
set for too little catalyst.
Better resin like vinlyester and especially epoxy have such low
moisture absorption rates that they are used as blister barriers.
Epoxy is also used to protect steel.
Therefore, if you want your boat last, use epoxy.
(Did I mention that we sell epoxy?).

Jacques
http://bateau2.com
 >> Stay informed about: what material to use? 

On 15 Nov 2004 09:01:44 -0800, jmg2.TakeThisOut@aol.com (Jacques) wrote:

 >Therefore, if you want your boat last, use epoxy.
 >(Did I mention that we sell epoxy?).
 >
 >Jacques
 >http://bateau2.com

OK, you at least were honest about your self-interest.

Here's a question regarding steel. I think it's a great yacht
material, but the coatings applied can make the difference between a
50 year or greater lifespan or a 10 year rust bucket.

Two-part barrier paints and foams are commonly used to protect steel.
Would you say that the most effective method of keeping steel intact
is to epoxy coat all surfaces?

R.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: what material to use? 

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:37:49 -0500, rhys <rhys.TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote:

 >On 15 Nov 2004 09:01:44 -0800, jmg2.TakeThisOut@aol.com (Jacques) wrote:
 >
  >>Therefore, if you want your boat last, use epoxy.
  >>(Did I mention that we sell epoxy?).
  >>
  >>Jacques
  >>http://bateau2.com
 >
 >OK, you at least were honest about your self-interest.
 >
 >Here's a question regarding steel. I think it's a great yacht
 >material, but the coatings applied can make the difference between a
 >50 year or greater lifespan or a 10 year rust bucket.
 >
 >Two-part barrier paints and foams are commonly used to protect steel.
 >Would you say that the most effective method of keeping steel intact
 >is to epoxy coat all surfaces?
 >
 >R.

Sand-blast and immediate zinc flame-spray. Two part epoxy to follow
would be nicely to gild the lily.

Brian W<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: what material to use?