internet on board

Hi, Eduardo,

Edoardo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
> satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
> What's the best solution?
> Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about this?
>
> Thanks a lot for your help
> Eddy

I don't want to rain on your parade. However, you asked about
satellite, as compared to other means of internet.

If you want full browsing and other like-at-home capabiliities, it's
certainly within the range of today's technology. Just ask the major
merchant marine folks, who have that aboard.

But it comes at a cost. *Lots* of whatever coinage you choose will
accomplish the job.

Just like the (American - don't know where you are) saying: Fast,
Cheap, Good. Choose two. In the case of marine internet, it's pretty
much the same. Want it good, and fast (not the equivalent of 20 years
ago's dial-up), it's not cheap. Want it fast and cheap? Go ashore to
internet cafés (no hardware investment). Good and cheap? Still
working on it, but in relative terms, SSB "modems" can get you email
and if you're a Ham, somewhat larger files, but still not browsing.

I'm currently working on, and am whittling away at problems
encountered, being able to access wifi from out in the harbor, without
having to be tied to an antenna - but there will still have to be some
gear up the mast, if I'm successful. However, that's only going to
work in range of some AP, most likely some household with an open
router, or a commercial pay site.

And then there's the satellite phones connected like a modem/dialer.
Now you're up to perhaps 15 years ago's speeds, but you can do whatever
you want with your minutes, and endure the time it takes to load a
page.

About a grand to get in for the SSB/Ham, minimum, plus the radio (many
flavors and costs) but minimal costs (free HAM and 250/year SSB), and
about the same for the satphone (but with minute costs plus whatever
plan you're on - and flaky coverage depending on where you are an whose
service/phone you have).

So, the other responses aren't being flip. If you want good solid
satellite internet coverage, it's major dinero, euro, bux, or your
favorite. The others are less costly and less effective.

L8R

Skip, working on the boat, one of which projects includes harborage and
anchorage wifi
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

In article <1152176212.419772.94060 DeleteThis @s26g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Edoardo" <ridleys DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
> satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
> What's the best solution?
> Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about this?
>
> Thanks a lot for your help
> Eddy
>

All it takes is MONEY, and lots of it, for either expensive hardware, or
expensive SAT Time, or BOTH......
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

Don't listen to the ignorance and nay saying regarding internet service
while at sea. Several providers have sail mail. Many marinas offer high
speed internet on a global basis.
Research what you need. Keep in mind the baud rate drop is substantial when
at sea. VHF sail mail will keep you in touch with a laptop. stick to text
messages and it will allow downloads of weather data.

CM

I don't usually condone x-posting... but this is a sailing related thread
"Edoardo" <ridleys DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152222083.236383.165740@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> You wrote:
>> In article <1152176212.419772.94060 DeleteThis @s26g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> "Edoardo" <ridleys DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
>> > satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
>> > What's the best solution?
>> > Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about this?
>> >
>> > Thanks a lot for your help
>> > Eddy
>> >
>>
>> All it takes is MONEY, and lots of it, for either expensive hardware, or
>> expensive SAT Time, or BOTH......
>
> This was the same kind of answer one would get 10 years ago asking for
> a flat panel 19" display or for a car navigation system.
> things that you can buy now for less than 500euro (maybe because
> somebody started talking about?)
> I am sorry for being polemic but I can't get an answer other than the
> "wow, what you want to do it's really expensive!" one.
> The reason I am asking this is because I really like sailing and at the
> same time I would like to help a friend of mine that asked this - maybe
> just as curiosity - or maybe just to know how it works.
> Internet satellite systems are getting widely used for cars, caravans
> and TV vans for example; I guess the most complicated thing to make
> them work on a boat would be for the boat movements (tilting, etc) but
> I can't find any good source of information about.
> thanks anyway..
>
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

Get an amateur radio license. Satellite service is free. Equipment is
inexpensive.

Glory!

"Capt.Mooron" <overproof.DeleteThis@emplybottle.com> wrote in message
news:iUgrg.99342$I61.73210@clgrps13...
> Don't listen to the ignorance and nay saying regarding internet service
> while at sea. Several providers have sail mail. Many marinas offer high
> speed internet on a global basis.
> Research what you need. Keep in mind the baud rate drop is substantial
> when at sea. VHF sail mail will keep you in touch with a laptop. stick to
> text messages and it will allow downloads of weather data.
>
> CM
>
> I don't usually condone x-posting... but this is a sailing related thread
> "Edoardo" <ridleys.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1152222083.236383.165740@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> You wrote:
>>> In article <1152176212.419772.94060.DeleteThis@s26g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>> "Edoardo" <ridleys.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
>>> > satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
>>> > What's the best solution?
>>> > Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about
>>> > this?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks a lot for your help
>>> > Eddy
>>> >
>>>
>>> All it takes is MONEY, and lots of it, for either expensive hardware, or
>>> expensive SAT Time, or BOTH......
>>
>> This was the same kind of answer one would get 10 years ago asking for
>> a flat panel 19" display or for a car navigation system.
>> things that you can buy now for less than 500euro (maybe because
>> somebody started talking about?)
>> I am sorry for being polemic but I can't get an answer other than the
>> "wow, what you want to do it's really expensive!" one.
>> The reason I am asking this is because I really like sailing and at the
>> same time I would like to help a friend of mine that asked this - maybe
>> just as curiosity - or maybe just to know how it works.
>> Internet satellite systems are getting widely used for cars, caravans
>> and TV vans for example; I guess the most complicated thing to make
>> them work on a boat would be for the boat movements (tilting, etc) but
>> I can't find any good source of information about.
>> thanks anyway..
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

Unfortunately you tend to get a lot of Morons who can't spell.
Sailmail is via SSB not VHF. VHF doesn't have any appreciable range,
once you're at sea.

You can get full Internet access via a satellite phone system, but if
you're on a small sailboat, you will be using an awful lot of power to
get it. Full internet access at sea requires you to use a stabilized
satellite antenna. Not only is the equipment power hungry, but it is
also quite expensive, as is the air time. Unlike a terrrestrial
broadband connection, most of the satellite-based ones charge by the
bandwidth used, not a flat monthly fee.

If all you need is decent access when near shore, then it might be
worth looking into an EDGE or GSM-based solution. While not as fast as
satellite, it is considerably cheaper. However, you would probably have
to get a new sim card and account for each country you use it in. Some
countries have a flat-rate plan, some do not. Really it depends on the
particular country and what providers are there.

On 2006-07-06 19:19:42 -0400, "Capt.Mooron" <overproof.DeleteThis@emplybottle.com> said:

> Don't listen to the ignorance and nay saying regarding internet
> service while at sea. Several providers have sail mail. Many marinas
> offer high speed internet on a global basis.
> Research what you need. Keep in mind the baud rate drop is substantial
> when at sea. VHF sail mail will keep you in touch with a laptop. stick
> to text messages and it will allow downloads of weather data.
>
> CM
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

dog wrote:
> Unfortunately you tend to get a lot of Morons who can't spell.
> Sailmail is via SSB not VHF. VHF doesn't have any appreciable range,
> once you're at sea.
>
> You can get full Internet access via a satellite phone system, but if
> you're on a small sailboat, you will be using an awful lot of power to
> get it. Full internet access at sea requires you to use a stabilized
> satellite antenna. Not only is the equipment power hungry, but it is
> also quite expensive, as is the air time. Unlike a terrrestrial
> broadband connection, most of the satellite-based ones charge by the
> bandwidth used, not a flat monthly fee.

Ok, I can imagine that a stabilized antenna would really be an
expensive piece of hardware, can't see it as a very power hungry device
though.
Do you have any link about this? somebody out there is selling these
antennas?

This is the kind of solution I was thinking about when I started this
thread: there is no point nowadays to be stuck on partial internet
access when everything can be done online, even with a low speed
connection (proper software+hardware) one can do everything (mail,
chat, voice, etc.)
Plus, I know about some terrestrial service providers that are
switching their offers on flat rates, of course they are expensive but
not as much as one can think - and correct me if I'm wrong - they only
difference between a terrestrial sat and a marine one is the antenna...
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

Anonyma wrote:
> If you want to know how much it will cost you as a consumer, start as
> cheap as you can and go price data capable Satellite phones. They start
> at about $600 US and go up from there. Satellite service is about $.14 a
> minute. On top of that your actual bandwidth will be sold to you in
> upload/download packages ranging from around $60/Month for 250MEG up
> and 1GIG down (total bytes, not per second), to around 5GIG/7GIG for
> $1100 a month.
>
> Dedicated "dialup speed" 32K/sec both ways will run you somewhere around
> $400 a month, and dedicated satellite "broadband" around a 1M/sec can
> be upwards of $11,000 a month.
>
> And don't forget that every minute of fraction thereof you're connected
> it costs you another $.14 or so on top of that.

ok, it is expensive

> > and TV vans for example; I guess the most complicated thing to make
>
> TV is one-way. The signal is spewed everywhere and those who want
> it, receive it. There's absolutely no need to send the TV station any
> information at all. All you need is the receiver, not the transmitter.
> You could do this on a boat also, if the Internet weren't by design a
> system where information is sent to a specific destination, and then
> confirmed packet by packet.

I wasn't thinking about tv, sometime you can find in big cities those
tv vans with terrestrial satellite antennas (that don't need to be
stabilized), they have a receiver and a transmitter and they put you
online.
Of course with cnn budgets you can do everything but the point here is
that terrestrial systems like this are being sold around 250euro /month
flat fee with connections 256Kbit/512Kbit upstream/downstream

>
> There is another option though, and it's something that's been around
> forever. Packet switching via amateur radio bandwidth. There's
> literally thousands of amateur repeaters along the US coastline alone
> that will allow you to grab essentially free Internet as long as you
> have an account somewhere to get your email and stuff. Of course this
> takes an even larger initial cash outlay, and a considerable amount of
> study and expertise.
>

nothing you can use in open sea though... and speed is low, very very
low
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

In article <2006070700125616807-dog@nomailcom>, dog.TakeThisOut@nomail.com says...
> Unfortunately you tend to get a lot of Morons who can't spell.
> Sailmail is via SSB not VHF. VHF doesn't have any appreciable range,
> once you're at sea.
>
> You can get full Internet access via a satellite phone system, but if
> you're on a small sailboat, you will be using an awful lot of power to
> get it. Full internet access at sea requires you to use a stabilized
> satellite antenna. Not only is the equipment power hungry, but it is
> also quite expensive, as is the air time. Unlike a terrrestrial
> broadband connection, most of the satellite-based ones charge by the
> bandwidth used, not a flat monthly fee.

What sorta of speed is available?

--
Duncan
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

In article <1152222083.236383.165740 RemoveThis @m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"Edoardo" <ridleys RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> You wrote:
> > In article <1152176212.419772.94060 RemoveThis @s26g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Edoardo" <ridleys RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
> > > satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
> > > What's the best solution?
> > > Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about this?
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot for your help
> > > Eddy
> > >
> >
> > All it takes is MONEY, and lots of it, for either expensive hardware, or
> > expensive SAT Time, or BOTH......
>
> This was the same kind of answer one would get 10 years ago asking for
> a flat panel 19" display or for a car navigation system.
> things that you can buy now for less than 500euro (maybe because
> somebody started talking about?)
> I am sorry for being polemic but I can't get an answer other than the
> "wow, what you want to do it's really expensive!" one.
> The reason I am asking this is because I really like sailing and at the
> same time I would like to help a friend of mine that asked this - maybe
> just as curiosity - or maybe just to know how it works.
> Internet satellite systems are getting widely used for cars, caravans
> and TV vans for example; I guess the most complicated thing to make
> them work on a boat would be for the boat movements (tilting, etc) but
> I can't find any good source of information about.
> thanks anyway..
>

There are piles of SAT systems for cars, caravans, and TV Vans, but the
first two are not passing IP Traffic in the bidirectional mode at any
speed of consequence. SAT Tv Vans have all the hardware to pass just
about any type of traffic, BUT they don't do it while moving, only at
fixed locations, and all that gear is expensive, HEAVY, and Power-hungry.
You can't find the information you require, because you are looking at
trying to do it on the cheap, and Gyro-Stabilized Ka or Ku Band Antennas
are anything but cheap. They also require Directional Heading Inputs
from an external Gyro System, or Enertial Nav system, which is another
expense, which is why these are usually only fitted on Military, or
Large Ships that already have a platform, and required auxillary Input
Systems, fitted.
DBS TvSAT Receive/Only Systems are in the 3-5Kbuck range when fitted with
Gyro-Stabilized Antennas, and getting an Uplink going means that your
antenna tracking accuracy has to be increased by at least an order of
magnitude. Otherwise you would be interfering with numerous other users,
on multiple SAT's because your antenna can't track a point in the sky
at less than 300 ArcSeconds.

Bruce in alaska an old SAT/Comm's guy from way back......
--
add a <2> before @
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

Not enough information. If you expect people to spend time helping you, it's
worthwhile explaining exactly what you want, and what for.

"Edoardo" <ridleys.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152176212.419772.94060@s26g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
> satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
> What's the best solution?
> Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about this?
>
> Thanks a lot for your help
> Eddy
>
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

maybe there wasn't enough information cause I was searching for it?

> > I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
> > satellite internet connection on sailing boats.

what you didn't understand exactly?
Internet means bidirectional tcp/ip packet flow
Satellite means you want to do it anywhere there is satellite coverage.



glenn P wrote:
> Not enough information. If you expect people to spend time helping you, it's
> worthwhile explaining exactly what you want, and what for.
>
> "Edoardo" <ridleys.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1152176212.419772.94060@s26g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
> > satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
> > What's the best solution?
> > Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about this?
> >
> > Thanks a lot for your help
> > Eddy
> >
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

Edoardo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
> satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
> What's the best solution?
> Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about this?
>
> Thanks a lot for your help
> Eddy

Eddy...
You may find the Podcast at the following link helpful:
http://www.distantshores.ca/pb/wp_9d5ec457/wp_9d5ec457.html

Download Podcast #3 - March 30, 2006 - "Communications and email
aboard. Interview with David Anderson of Stand Sure Marine about using
an HF marine or HAM radio to connect to the Internet at sea."

It is 38 min long and is an interview conducted by Paul and Sheryl
Shard discussing everything from e-mail to Internet at sea with an
expert. Most of the figures they use are in Canadian Dollars...

Hope this gets you started...
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board 

If you want it at sea, I cant help but if you want it near shore I can.

I just completed a 1400 mile trip from Tampa Florida to Corpus Christi
Texas in my Gulfstar 36. I had internet connection for the whole thrip
except for about 120 miles along the "Big Bend" of Florida. I had fast
connections so that I was able to download charts from the internet
every evening (about 5 minutes per chart). And the cost was $10 a
month and no cell minutes used.

The service is called PCS Vision and its with Sprint. You have to have
a regular Cell Phone account with Sprint, a PCS Vision enabled cell
phone, and a cable from a third party vendor (you can find them on the
internet, and NO they are NOT illegal) Sprint used to sell the cables
but got out of the bussiness......maybe to discourage use of the
system.

The speed is about 56 K Baud....depending on the tower you get....you
must have a digital tower, wont work on an analog tower....and you need
a laptop to connect the cable from the cell phone to. The software is
free, download from the Sprint website.

I can only talk about the Sanyo SCP 4900 cell phone as that is the one
I have (two years old) . It works great, but it is an oldie and they
may not be available anymore. The current phones may work even better
but I cannot attest to that.

You have to be careful in selecting your plan as there are several and
two of them will eat you alive on minutes charges. The cheap one at $5
a month charges for minutes. The next step is $10 a month and does NOT
charge for minutes. Technically you could stay on 24/7 at no extra
cost. The third one is for commercial users and will cost you more
than you have to spend.

During our trip I used a Sony Vaio laptop to which I connected my $99
Delorme GPS, a 1gig ram stick ($49 at Wall Mart), and the telephone
(free at the time for promotional purposes). I could download the
charts in the evening for the next day and then using (also free
software) SeaClear software I could watch my progress on the charts
using the GPS connection. Its a great system and the monthly cost was
only $10


osprey_1898 DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> Edoardo wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am searching for some good source of information about installing a
> > satellite internet connection on sailing boats.
> > What's the best solution?
> > Is there a website/forum/group that is specifically talking about this?
> >
> > Thanks a lot for your help
> > Eddy
>
> Eddy...
> You may find the Podcast at the following link helpful:
> http://www.distantshores.ca/pb/wp_9d5ec457/wp_9d5ec457.html
>
> Download Podcast #3 - March 30, 2006 - "Communications and email
> aboard. Interview with David Anderson of Stand Sure Marine about using
> an HF marine or HAM radio to connect to the Internet at sea."
>
> It is 38 min long and is an interview conducted by Paul and Sheryl
> Shard discussing everything from e-mail to Internet at sea with an
> expert. Most of the figures they use are in Canadian Dollars...
>
> Hope this gets you started...
 >> Stay informed about: internet on board