I hate boat buyers... (long)

On May 9, 8:54 pm, Tom Francis <REMOVEi... RemoveThis @REMOVEswsports.org> wrote:

>
> I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
> based on his "surveyor's" report.
>
> I hung up on him.


Maybe his "surveyer" had a boat for sale too?
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

On May 9, 5:54�pm, Tom Francis <REMOVEi....TakeThisOut@REMOVEswsports.org> wrote:
> I'm in the process of selling the Halman and I had a guy who was
> really interested in it. I spent four hours on the phone with him, I
> took a ton of pictures and he made an unseen offer contingent on
> viewing the boat.  I explained to him exactly what the boat was and
> what was wrong.  He asked if he could being a surveyor along - fine,
> no problem there.  
>
> I sent him a copy of the survey I had done this spring. The surveyor
> basically said the same thing I did - the Halman needs some minor
> cosmetic work  (like the wood needs to be stripped and revarnished -
> the hull could use a good compounding with Finesse It II, etc.) but
> the basic boat is structurally sound, no leaks, no blisters, the
> stainless is in amazing shape as are the sails and rigging.  The cabin
> doesn't leak anywhere, window seals are excellent - everything  you
> would want in a gunk holer type sailboat.  The trailer needs a good
> sandblast and paint job, but is servicable as a road trailer.
>
> He came to see it this afternoon and brought a "surveyor" friend,
> looked it over.  I was a little suspicious as he kept calling it a
> Nordic 20 - technically, I guess that is correct, but it's a Halman
> Nordic 20 and in a lot of ways, a completely different boat. He kept
> asking some really stupid questions like where the keel bolts were
> (huh?) and the water tank (I understand that the Halman specs call for
> one, but this doesn't have that option).  He nitpicked the color -
> apparently it's not a standard offered color (which may or may not be
> true - I've seen pictures of a Halman in the same shade of brown in
> Florida) insisting that the boat had been painted and that wasn't the
> original color.  He wanted to see where the blisters were - all these
> boats according to him had blister problems.  Made a big deal about
> the bottom paint (which needs doing - I admitted that up front) and
> the fact that there wasn't a barrier coat.  According to the
> "surveyor", water can creep into the keel and deform the lead over the
> winter (the Halman doesn't have lead in it's keel - it's encapsulated
> steel).
>
> After an hour of this bullshit, I was getting a little annoyed, but
> kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
> back to me tonight.
>
> I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
> based on his "surveyor's" report.
>
> I hung up on him.

The friend definitely wasn't a professional surveyor.

A true surveyor concentrates on preparing an objective report about
the condition of the vessel, not verbally challenging representations
made by the seller. He asked you where the blisters were? That's
bogus. The boat either has blisters or it doesn't. If it has blisters,
the "surveyor" should be able to find them and wouldn't need you to
point them out.

That's the downside of an industry where the right to call oneself a
"surveyor" can be purchased with a box of business cards and hand
lettering 3x5 index cards to thumbtack to the bulletin boards at local
marinas. Even the professional associations are pretty weak, seemingly
more concerned with making poor surveyors better than with turning
down their membership application (and dues checks).

Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

On May 9, 6:52�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing <e... DeleteThis @swsports.org> wrote:
> On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould <chuckgould.ch... DeleteThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
> >along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.
>
> Thanks - it just pissed me off.  I could never do retail boat sales -
> I'd end up shooting somebody.  :>)
>
> I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred.  It is what
> it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
> of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
> outboard.

Then it's the idiot who offered you $600 who is the loser in this
situation, not you.


Justice will prevail on the day when he finds somebody who accepts his
$600 offer on what should be a $4500 boat and the buyer only finds out
exactly why after the deal is done and the money has changed
hands.
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould <chuckgould.chuck RemoveThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

>Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
>along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.

Thanks - it just pissed me off. I could never do retail boat sales -
I'd end up shooting somebody. :>)

I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. It is what
it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
outboard.

Not fancy - just a great little gunk holer. If somebody wants to turn
it into a project, it would be great for that also.

I just don't have the time.
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" <email.DeleteThis@swsports.org> wrote in message
news:qeu44310i0h93rq34jsfbctketerv2kdcv@4ax.com...
> On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould <chuckgould.chuck.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
>>along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.
>
> Thanks - it just pissed me off. I could never do retail boat sales -
> I'd end up shooting somebody. :>)
>
> I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. It is what
> it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
> of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
> outboard.
>
> Not fancy - just a great little gunk holer. If somebody wants to turn
> it into a project, it would be great for that also.
>
> I just don't have the time.

Don't waste a minute on idiots like that. Nordicas were made by a different
company.
As I mentioned before that boat is worth $6K CDN up here.
http://sailquest.com/market/models/halman.htm
and I've seen 'cream puff' versions asking $10K CDN.

here are three listings on a boating classified site..
Halman 20 1979
With extended cruising possiblities via trailer. Pocket cruiser that
has been to Florida and Bahamas and proven herself capable and is ready to
go again! Comes equipped. Contact Harry for details. Live your dream for!
CDN $9,999 neg
(905) 697-3205 anytime
E-mail: hfriebe.DeleteThis@gmail.com


Halman 20 1981
Robust seaworthy sloop. Excellent condition. With Immaculate 2006
9.9hp brand new: motor, battery, charger, cushions, flares, ladder. Main,
headsail, +Genoa. VHF, GPS, head, cradle, watertank, groundtackle, etc.
Check reputation.
CDN $8,500
(705) 868-8405 day
E-mail: ckalouda.DeleteThis@flemingc.ca
Web: fleming0.flemingc.on.ca/~bwutty/halman.htm


Halman 20/21 (Bowsprit) 1980
New sails, furling, VHF, refit 2006, Honda 7.5, cradle. Lying POH
Kingston, Ontario.
CDN $8,750 frm
(613) 547-4492 evening
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

On May 9, 7:54 pm, Tom Francis <REMOVEi....RemoveThis@REMOVEswsports.org> wrote:
> I'm in the process of selling the Halman and I had a guy who was
> really interested in it. I spent four hours on the phone with him, I
> took a ton of pictures and he made an unseen offer contingent on
> viewing the boat. I explained to him exactly what the boat was and
> what was wrong. He asked if he could being a surveyor along - fine,
> no problem there.
>
> I sent him a copy of the survey I had done this spring. The surveyor
> basically said the same thing I did - the Halman needs some minor
> cosmetic work (like the wood needs to be stripped and revarnished -
> the hull could use a good compounding with Finesse It II, etc.) but
> the basic boat is structurally sound, no leaks, no blisters, the
> stainless is in amazing shape as are the sails and rigging. The cabin
> doesn't leak anywhere, window seals are excellent - everything you
> would want in a gunk holer type sailboat. The trailer needs a good
> sandblast and paint job, but is servicable as a road trailer.
>
> He came to see it this afternoon and brought a "surveyor" friend,
> looked it over. I was a little suspicious as he kept calling it a
> Nordic 20 - technically, I guess that is correct, but it's a Halman
> Nordic 20 and in a lot of ways, a completely different boat. He kept
> asking some really stupid questions like where the keel bolts were
> (huh?) and the water tank (I understand that the Halman specs call for
> one, but this doesn't have that option). He nitpicked the color -
> apparently it's not a standard offered color (which may or may not be
> true - I've seen pictures of a Halman in the same shade of brown in
> Florida) insisting that the boat had been painted and that wasn't the
> original color. He wanted to see where the blisters were - all these
> boats according to him had blister problems. Made a big deal about
> the bottom paint (which needs doing - I admitted that up front) and
> the fact that there wasn't a barrier coat. According to the
> "surveyor", water can creep into the keel and deform the lead over the
> winter (the Halman doesn't have lead in it's keel - it's encapsulated
> steel).
>
> After an hour of this bullshit, I was getting a little annoyed, but
> kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
> back to me tonight.
>
> I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
> based on his "surveyor's" report.
>
> I hung up on him.

Tom, have you considered ( I know you have) putting it up on Ebay? or
your local CraigsList?
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

Tell him that you'll take $600 for the boat, but the sails are $3900. And
you will not sell them separately.


"Short Wave Sportfishing" <email RemoveThis @swsports.org> wrote in message
news:qeu44310i0h93rq34jsfbctketerv2kdcv@4ax.com...
> On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould <chuckgould.chuck RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
>>along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.
>
> Thanks - it just pissed me off. I could never do retail boat sales -
> I'd end up shooting somebody. :>)
>
> I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. It is what
> it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
> of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
> outboard.
>
> Not fancy - just a great little gunk holer. If somebody wants to turn
> it into a project, it would be great for that also.
>
> I just don't have the time.
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

"Tom Francis" <REMOVEinfo.TakeThisOut@REMOVEswsports.org> wrote in message
news:u6q443lepc129s9l00qqunvk5bsaqgg9ve@4ax.com...

>
> After an hour of this bullshit, I was getting a little annoyed, but
> kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
> back to me tonight.
>
> I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
> based on his "surveyor's" report.
>
> I hung up on him.


I hate selling stuff period. When it comes to boats, I'd rather sell
through a reputable broker and pay him a commission, allowing him to screen
the tire kickers from the serious buyers.

It's not just boats either. I recently sold a custom built Harley that I
had advertised on Craigslist. Long story short .... the initial potential
buyer jerked me around with promises for over a month while he tried to
obtain financing to buy it. This is after I explained to him that it was a
custom build, had been inspected by the MA State Police and issued a MA VIN
number and title, but not all banks would finance custom built bikes without
a manufacturer's assigned VIN. (they can't look the value up in a book) I
also explained that I had priced the bike at well below it's value to make
it attractive to a cash buyer and provided documentation of the cost to
build to prove it. He told me he would be paying cash. He was a director
of something at a large food supply company in CT ... a typical
self-important yuppie. After a month of delays .... important job meetings,
sick mother-in-law, etc. he emailed that he was ready to do the deal and
would call me the next day. I said fine. Never heard from him again.
(Learned my lesson .... next time a deposit will be required).

Then .... Mrs. E. had purchased a set of OEM rims and winter tires for the
'06 BMW 750il that she had for a short period of time. She paid about $3600
for the set, never used them, and ended up trading the car for a Z4si. I
got tired (pun intended) of storing them, tried unsuccessfully to sell them
back to the dealer and finally listed them on Craigslist for $500 just to
get rid of them. I had guys wanting to try them on other BMW series cars,
but they wanted the option of getting their money back if they didn't fit.
(give me a break!) Then, a guy with a new seven series BMW called and
wanted them. He couldn't believe I only wanted 500 bucks for them and
showed up to buy them. He inspected them, looked at me and said, "Will you
take $450?"

I guess everyone has to negotiate, regardless of the price. I hesitated for
a second, then said "fine" and helped him load them in his truck.

Eisboch
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

Harry Krause wrote:
> Tom Francis wrote:
>> I'm in the process of selling the Halman and I had a guy who was
>> really interested in it. I spent four hours on the phone with him, I
>> took a ton of pictures and he made an unseen offer contingent on
>> viewing the boat. I explained to him exactly what the boat was and
>> what was wrong. He asked if he could being a surveyor along - fine,
>> no problem there.
>> I sent him a copy of the survey I had done this spring. The surveyor
>> basically said the same thing I did - the Halman needs some minor
>> cosmetic work (like the wood needs to be stripped and revarnished -
>> the hull could use a good compounding with Finesse It II, etc.) but
>> the basic boat is structurally sound, no leaks, no blisters, the
>> stainless is in amazing shape as are the sails and rigging. The cabin
>> doesn't leak anywhere, window seals are excellent - everything you
>> would want in a gunk holer type sailboat. The trailer needs a good
>> sandblast and paint job, but is servicable as a road trailer.
>>
>> He came to see it this afternoon and brought a "surveyor" friend,
>> looked it over. I was a little suspicious as he kept calling it a
>> Nordic 20 - technically, I guess that is correct, but it's a Halman
>> Nordic 20 and in a lot of ways, a completely different boat. He kept
>> asking some really stupid questions like where the keel bolts were
>> (huh?) and the water tank (I understand that the Halman specs call for
>> one, but this doesn't have that option). He nitpicked the color -
>> apparently it's not a standard offered color (which may or may not be
>> true - I've seen pictures of a Halman in the same shade of brown in
>> Florida) insisting that the boat had been painted and that wasn't the
>> original color. He wanted to see where the blisters were - all these
>> boats according to him had blister problems. Made a big deal about
>> the bottom paint (which needs doing - I admitted that up front) and
>> the fact that there wasn't a barrier coat. According to the
>> "surveyor", water can creep into the keel and deform the lead over the
>> winter (the Halman doesn't have lead in it's keel - it's encapsulated
>> steel).
>> After an hour of this bullshit, I was getting a little annoyed, but
>> kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
>> back to me tonight.
>>
>> I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
>> based on his "surveyor's" report.
>>
>> I hung up on him.
>
>
> When selling a boat, I always work hard to avoid dealing with brokers
> and advertising in "boat" publications. The best way to sell is via word
> of mouth or through a lead supplied by a boat dealer or marina where you
> do business.

You have been talking about selling YoHo for 3 years using your method
of using "word of mouth" and still have not sold it, Tom may not want to
wait 3 years.
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

On May 9, 8:54 pm, Tom Francis <REMOVEi....TakeThisOut@REMOVEswsports.org> wrote:
> I'm in the process of selling the Halman and I had a guy who was
> really interested in it. I spent four hours on the phone with him, I
> took a ton of pictures and he made an unseen offer contingent on
> viewing the boat. I explained to him exactly what the boat was and
> what was wrong. He asked if he could being a surveyor along - fine,
> no problem there.
>
> I sent him a copy of the survey I had done this spring. The surveyor
> basically said the same thing I did - the Halman needs some minor
> cosmetic work (like the wood needs to be stripped and revarnished -
> the hull could use a good compounding with Finesse It II, etc.) but
> the basic boat is structurally sound, no leaks, no blisters, the
> stainless is in amazing shape as are the sails and rigging. The cabin
> doesn't leak anywhere, window seals are excellent - everything you
> would want in a gunk holer type sailboat. The trailer needs a good
> sandblast and paint job, but is servicable as a road trailer.
>
> He came to see it this afternoon and brought a "surveyor" friend,
> looked it over. I was a little suspicious as he kept calling it a
> Nordic 20 - technically, I guess that is correct, but it's a Halman
> Nordic 20 and in a lot of ways, a completely different boat. He kept
> asking some really stupid questions like where the keel bolts were
> (huh?) and the water tank (I understand that the Halman specs call for
> one, but this doesn't have that option). He nitpicked the color -
> apparently it's not a standard offered color (which may or may not be
> true - I've seen pictures of a Halman in the same shade of brown in
> Florida) insisting that the boat had been painted and that wasn't the
> original color. He wanted to see where the blisters were - all these
> boats according to him had blister problems. Made a big deal about
> the bottom paint (which needs doing - I admitted that up front) and
> the fact that there wasn't a barrier coat. According to the
> "surveyor", water can creep into the keel and deform the lead over the
> winter (the Halman doesn't have lead in it's keel - it's encapsulated
> steel).
>
> After an hour of this bullshit, I was getting a little annoyed, but
> kept cool. Finally, they left and the potential buyer said he'd get
> back to me tonight.
>
> I just got off the phone with him - he offered me $600 for the Halman
> based on his "surveyor's" report.
>
> I hung up on him.

Why not hire a broker and avoid all that agrivation?
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

On May 10, 4:45�am, Short Wave Sportfishing <e... RemoveThis @swsports.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 May 2007 03:33:48 -0400, "RCE" <r... RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
> >I guess everyone has to negotiate, regardless of the price
>
> I know what you mean.
>
> Then there's negotiation and negotiation.  I'm not a negotiator in any
> sense of the word.  I always buy my cars from the same dealer (have
> for over thirty years), I've bought my boat engines from the same
> dealer (plus about 8 boats over 30 years), I always have car repairs
> done by the same mechanic, etc.  I value them as friends and business
> men/women and they value me as a customer.  If they say this is the
> price, fine - I have faith that I'm not getting hosed and in fact, I'm
> not.  One the other hand, they have faith that I will return when
> necessary and that I'm easy to deal with.  There is an added advantage
> that if I show up with a problem, it's taken care of immediately - I
> don't expect that kind of treatment and insist that it be taken care
> of in order so not to unconvinced others, but...
>
> I just hate it when things like this happen.  It's not that I expect
> people to buy it if I work hard at giving them the information they
> want - that's part of selling something.
>
> I do expect to be treated with respect like any other normal human
> being.  This clown was talking about the auto jib furler.  It's a
> Harken furler, but he was all hot and bothered because it wasn't a CDI
> which is more common thus better.
>
> What?
>
> I'll be the first to admit that I don't know about a lot of things -
> I'm not the Universal Renaissance Man. Larger cruising boats for
> instance and I haven't sailed in years so there are gaps in my
> knowledge.  But I'm not stupid and I do know the basics and I do know
> small boats.  I can also research and talk to others who do know.
>
> You respect me and I'll respect you and we'll get things done.  I
> insisted on it in my business dealings and I expect it personally.
>
> ~~ sigh ~~
>
> Rant off.  :>)

When you make a living buying and selling high ticket retail, as I did
for the majority of my working life, you come to expect the sort of
treatment you got from your "buyer". It's fairly routine. The trick
is in not letting the bastards get you down. I've listened to
salespeople lie their butts off, and I've listened to buyers doing the
same. I'm here to tell you, the typical salesperson on his very best
day can't hold a candle to some of the consumers who walk in with the
attitude that salespeople are all lying scumbags, and then proceed to
outlie the most dishonest salesman on the premises.

I think it's always been this way in a market where the prices aren't
fixed. Doesn't matter whether it's a Mexican flea market, a corner
vegetable stand in Europe, or a jewelry wholesale firm in NYC.
Particularly those buyers who aren't interested in establishing a
relationship and becoming repeat buyers will use every trick they have
ever heard of and invent a few more if required.
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

On 9 May 2007 19:58:54 -0700, Chuck Gould <chuckgould.chuck RemoveThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

>On May 9, 6:52?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing <e... RemoveThis @swsports.org> wrote:
>> On 9 May 2007 18:28:05 -0700, Chuck Gould <chuckgould.ch... RemoveThis @gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Hang in there. What's that boat worth, really? Somebody will happen
>> >along who actually likes it, and be willing to pay a fair price.
>>
>> Thanks - it just pissed me off. could never do retail boat sales -
>> I'd end up shooting somebody. :>)
>>
>> I figure it's worth about $4500 +/- a couple of hundred. t is what
>> it is - a sound boat in sound mechanical condition with a full suite
>> of sails, covers with a trailer and a 10 horse electric start
>> outboard.
>
>Then it's the idiot who offered you $600 who is the loser in this
>situation, not you.
>
>Justice will prevail on the day when he finds somebody who accepts his
>$600 offer on what should be a $4500 boat and the buyer only finds out
>exactly why after the deal is done and the money has changed
>hands.

I am a firm believer in karma Chuck. He will get bit in the ass at
some point - I just wish I could be there to see it. :>)
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long) 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

>
> I am a firm believer in karma Chuck. He will get bit in the ass at
> some point - I just wish I could be there to see it. :>)

Sometimes it takes awhile for Karma to perform it's magic, but it does
eventually catch up with people.
 >> Stay informed about: I hate boat buyers... (long)