 |
|
|
|
Next: Automatic life jacket for canoeing?
|
| Author |
Message |
External
Since: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 33
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:52 pm
Post subject: How hard is it to become a kayak racer?
Archived from groups: rec>boats>paddle (more info?)
|
|
|
I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
exercise my upper body . I could start swimming. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 | |
External
Since: Jul 28, 2004
Posts: 37
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:42 am
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Welcome to multisport!
Your question really has two parts: one, how do I train, and two, what
do I paddle?
Training for canoe/kayak legs takes paddling. Swimming, XC skiing, and
general core work in the weight room will help a lot, and there are
certainly specific exercises that you can add to help strengthen the
obliques, lats and triceps. Paddling technique for racing is somewhat
more difficult to learn, usually involves learning to paddle a 'wing
paddle', higher cadence, and starting the stroke from your toes. I'm
assuming since your race was in BC you may live somewhere around
Vancouver. You might want to check out some of the canoe/kayak clubs
(False Creek?) for K1 lessons.
Boats are another whole subject. The fastest paddler in the world is
still not going to make a short, wide 16' boat go as fast as a pretty
good racer in a fast 18' boat like an Epic18 or CD Stratus. Much less
as fast as some of the 6meter NZ boats or surf skis. However, all of
these can be a real handful (if not downright unsafe) in inexperienced
hands, particularly if the weather gets rough.
52minutes suggests your race was somewhere around 5-6 miles. With a
competent paddler, a fast ski or Unlimited may average around 7mph on
flat water, an Epic 18 around 6, and a plastic 16'6 boat around 4. And
there are a whole range of boats in between. Technique and the ability
to read water, currents, surf, and other things may radically alter your
performance. If every third stroke is a brace, your speed drops very
quickly.
Time in the boat and lessons from someone who races will have a huge
effect, even paddling a plastic tub. Careful though - it can be addictive.
Regards
Marsh J
Minnesota
novice wrote:
> I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
> 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
> eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
> finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
> intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
> build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
> any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
> exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
> |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 121
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:49 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
I have a feeling that it was more technique than boat.
In your previous post you mentioned how tired your arms were after
finishing the kayak leg of the race. That indicates that you're
probably arm paddling, getting your power from your biceps. A couple of
hours with a decent instructor will show you how to use torso rotation
instead.
> How much do you have to kayak to have an
> intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
Some people kayak for years and never reach intermediate level because
they try to self-teach and they don't know how. Weight training is
useful, but kayaking is an endurance sport. Greg Barton, 2-time Olympic
goal medalist, is a pretty skinny guy, not musclebound at all.
It makes sense to get a kayak and get on the water with some
instruction. Whatever gets you one the water is good for starting, but
you might as well start with a long skinny boat that would be suitable
for racing.
novice wrote:
> I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
> 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
> eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
> finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
> intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
> build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
> any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
> exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
>
--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 33
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Steve Cramer wrote:
> I have a feeling that it was more technique than boat.
>
> In your previous post you mentioned how tired your arms were after
> finishing the kayak leg of the race. That indicates that you're
> probably arm paddling, getting your power from your biceps. A couple of
> hours with a decent instructor will show you how to use torso rotation
> instead.
>
> > How much do you have to kayak to have an
> > intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
>
> Some people kayak for years and never reach intermediate level because
> they try to self-teach and they don't know how. Weight training is
> useful, but kayaking is an endurance sport. Greg Barton, 2-time Olympic
> goal medalist, is a pretty skinny guy, not musclebound at all.
>
> It makes sense to get a kayak and get on the water with some
> instruction. Whatever gets you one the water is good for starting, but
> you might as well start with a long skinny boat that would be suitable
> for racing.
>
>
> novice wrote:
> > I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
> > 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
> > eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
> > finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
> > intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> > Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
> > build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
> > any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
> > exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
> >
>
>
> --
> Steve Cramer
> Athens, GA
My arms were not sore during or after the race. I tried to push forward
with my arms and shoulders but the back of the seat was about 2 inches
away from my back. I did not have the sensation that my arms were tired
during race. People just had better boats or were in double kayaks. i
almost tied 3 double fiberglass kayaks. My arms felt weak in the
mountain biking section which was the last 3 hrs of race, though.
Not sure if i understand what endurance is. How do the muscles adapt to
increase endurance? >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 33
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:10 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Thanks for the excellent response. Yes, I am from Vancouver. False
creek is one place people kayak in Vancouver. It will have to brood on
some of the issues you brought up. I doing adventure racing ie
kayak/running/mountain biking/orienteering and it is addictive:)
Marsh Jones wrote:
> Welcome to multisport!
>
> Your question really has two parts: one, how do I train, and two, what
> do I paddle?
>
> Training for canoe/kayak legs takes paddling. Swimming, XC skiing, and
> general core work in the weight room will help a lot, and there are
> certainly specific exercises that you can add to help strengthen the
> obliques, lats and triceps. Paddling technique for racing is somewhat
> more difficult to learn, usually involves learning to paddle a 'wing
> paddle', higher cadence, and starting the stroke from your toes. I'm
> assuming since your race was in BC you may live somewhere around
> Vancouver. You might want to check out some of the canoe/kayak clubs
> (False Creek?) for K1 lessons.
>
> Boats are another whole subject. The fastest paddler in the world is
> still not going to make a short, wide 16' boat go as fast as a pretty
> good racer in a fast 18' boat like an Epic18 or CD Stratus. Much less
> as fast as some of the 6meter NZ boats or surf skis. However, all of
> these can be a real handful (if not downright unsafe) in inexperienced
> hands, particularly if the weather gets rough.
>
> 52minutes suggests your race was somewhere around 5-6 miles. With a
> competent paddler, a fast ski or Unlimited may average around 7mph on
> flat water, an Epic 18 around 6, and a plastic 16'6 boat around 4. And
> there are a whole range of boats in between. Technique and the ability
> to read water, currents, surf, and other things may radically alter your
> performance. If every third stroke is a brace, your speed drops very
> quickly.
>
> Time in the boat and lessons from someone who races will have a huge
> effect, even paddling a plastic tub. Careful though - it can be addictive.
>
> Regards
>
> Marsh J
> Minnesota
>
> novice wrote:
> > I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
> > 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
> > eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
> > finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
> > intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> > Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
> > build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
> > any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
> > exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
> > >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 214
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"novice" wrote in
> Thanks for the excellent response. Yes, I am from Vancouver. False
> creek is one place people kayak in Vancouver.
Coincidently, I paddled False Creek last weekend. I left the east coast at
6:00am, arrived at 2:30pm, got to the hotel and changed, took a cab to
Ecomarine, and paddled for a few hours. I got back to the hotel with just
enough time to change, walk to a place on English bay for dinner with a
group of 10 or so others.
Ecomarine had a Necky Looksha II sitting just outside the door. Don't know
if it was for sale but it would certainly be a good boat if you were serious
about racing. >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 121
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:45 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
novice wrote:
> Steve Cramer wrote:
>> I have a feeling that it was more technique than boat.
>>
>> In your previous post you mentioned how tired your arms were after
>> finishing the kayak leg of the race. That indicates that you're
>> probably arm paddling, getting your power from your biceps. A couple of
>> hours with a decent instructor will show you how to use torso rotation
>> instead.
>>
>> > How much do you have to kayak to have an
>> > intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
>>
>> Some people kayak for years and never reach intermediate level because
>> they try to self-teach and they don't know how. Weight training is
>> useful, but kayaking is an endurance sport. Greg Barton, 2-time Olympic
>> goal medalist, is a pretty skinny guy, not musclebound at all.
>>
>> It makes sense to get a kayak and get on the water with some
>> instruction. Whatever gets you one the water is good for starting, but
>> you might as well start with a long skinny boat that would be suitable
>> for racing.
>>
>>
>> novice wrote:
>>> I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
>>> 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
>>> eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
>>> finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
>>> intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
>>> Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
>>> build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
>>> any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
>>> exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Cramer
>> Athens, GA
>
>
> My arms were not sore during or after the race. I tried to push forward
> with my arms and shoulders but the back of the seat was about 2 inches
> away from my back. I did not have the sensation that my arms were tired
> during race. People just had better boats or were in double kayaks. i
> almost tied 3 double fiberglass kayaks. My arms felt weak in the
> mountain biking section which was the last 3 hrs of race, though.
>
> Not sure if i understand what endurance is. How do the muscles adapt to
> increase endurance?
>
I must have misunderstood your previous post in which you said:
> My arms were tired from paddling so that i could not mountain bike
> right.
I took that to mean that your arms were, um, tired. Thanks for clearing
that up.
Yeah, two paddlers in a double could run away from a solo paddler.
Aren't they in a different racing class? If you almost tied 3 glass
doubles you were doing alright.
I'm afraid I can't explain how muscles adapt to increase endurance, I'm
not up on the physiology of it. I just meant that exercises to build
strength won't get you as far as paddling and more paddling.
Good luck with your racing.
Steve
--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 33
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:43 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
John Fereira wrote:
> "novice" wrote in
>
>
> > Thanks for the excellent response. Yes, I am from Vancouver. False
> > creek is one place people kayak in Vancouver.
>
> Coincidently, I paddled False Creek last weekend. I left the east coast at
> 6:00am, arrived at 2:30pm, got to the hotel and changed, took a cab to
> Ecomarine, and paddled for a few hours. I got back to the hotel with just
> enough time to change, walk to a place on English bay for dinner with a
> group of 10 or so others.
>
> Ecomarine had a Necky Looksha II sitting just outside the door. Don't know
> if it was for sale but it would certainly be a good boat if you were serious
> about racing.
Quite the paddle:) There was a necky loosha at deep cove, too , but the
guy said it was really tippy. I will get a fast boat next time. lesson
learned. >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 33
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:49 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Steve Cramer wrote:
> novice wrote:
> > Steve Cramer wrote:
> >> I have a feeling that it was more technique than boat.
> >>
> >> In your previous post you mentioned how tired your arms were after
> >> finishing the kayak leg of the race. That indicates that you're
> >> probably arm paddling, getting your power from your biceps. A couple of
> >> hours with a decent instructor will show you how to use torso rotation
> >> instead.
> >>
> >> > How much do you have to kayak to have an
> >> > intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> >>
> >> Some people kayak for years and never reach intermediate level because
> >> they try to self-teach and they don't know how. Weight training is
> >> useful, but kayaking is an endurance sport. Greg Barton, 2-time Olympic
> >> goal medalist, is a pretty skinny guy, not musclebound at all.
> >>
> >> It makes sense to get a kayak and get on the water with some
> >> instruction. Whatever gets you one the water is good for starting, but
> >> you might as well start with a long skinny boat that would be suitable
> >> for racing.
> >>
> >>
> >> novice wrote:
> >>> I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
> >>> 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
> >>> eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
> >>> finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
> >>> intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> >>> Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
> >>> build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
> >>> any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
> >>> exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steve Cramer
> >> Athens, GA
> >
> >
> > My arms were not sore during or after the race. I tried to push forward
> > with my arms and shoulders but the back of the seat was about 2 inches
> > away from my back. I did not have the sensation that my arms were tired
> > during race. People just had better boats or were in double kayaks. i
> > almost tied 3 double fiberglass kayaks. My arms felt weak in the
> > mountain biking section which was the last 3 hrs of race, though.
> >
> > Not sure if i understand what endurance is. How do the muscles adapt to
> > increase endurance?
> >
> I must have misunderstood your previous post in which you said:
>
> > My arms were tired from paddling so that i could not mountain bike
> > right.
>
> I took that to mean that your arms were, um, tired. Thanks for clearing
> that up.
>
> Yeah, two paddlers in a double could run away from a solo paddler.
> Aren't they in a different racing class? If you almost tied 3 glass
> doubles you were doing alright.
>
> I'm afraid I can't explain how muscles adapt to increase endurance, I'm
> not up on the physiology of it. I just meant that exercises to build
> strength won't get you as far as paddling and more paddling.
>
> Good luck with your racing.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> Steve Cramer
> Athens, GA
Thanks:) At least it is harder to injure yourself paddling vs running.
I don't exercise my arms at all so it wouldn't be surprising that they
would get tired from paddling 10kms. I was so hopped up on adrenaline i
was not really aware of things like tired arms etc >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 33
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:51 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Steve Cramer wrote:
> novice wrote:
> > Steve Cramer wrote:
> >> I have a feeling that it was more technique than boat.
> >>
> >> In your previous post you mentioned how tired your arms were after
> >> finishing the kayak leg of the race. That indicates that you're
> >> probably arm paddling, getting your power from your biceps. A couple of
> >> hours with a decent instructor will show you how to use torso rotation
> >> instead.
> >>
> >> > How much do you have to kayak to have an
> >> > intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> >>
> >> Some people kayak for years and never reach intermediate level because
> >> they try to self-teach and they don't know how. Weight training is
> >> useful, but kayaking is an endurance sport. Greg Barton, 2-time Olympic
> >> goal medalist, is a pretty skinny guy, not musclebound at all.
> >>
> >> It makes sense to get a kayak and get on the water with some
> >> instruction. Whatever gets you one the water is good for starting, but
> >> you might as well start with a long skinny boat that would be suitable
> >> for racing.
> >>
> >>
> >> novice wrote:
> >>> I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
> >>> 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
> >>> eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
> >>> finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
> >>> intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> >>> Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
> >>> build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
> >>> any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
> >>> exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steve Cramer
> >> Athens, GA
> >
> >
> > My arms were not sore during or after the race. I tried to push forward
> > with my arms and shoulders but the back of the seat was about 2 inches
> > away from my back. I did not have the sensation that my arms were tired
> > during race. People just had better boats or were in double kayaks. i
> > almost tied 3 double fiberglass kayaks. My arms felt weak in the
> > mountain biking section which was the last 3 hrs of race, though.
> >
> > Not sure if i understand what endurance is. How do the muscles adapt to
> > increase endurance?
> >
> I must have misunderstood your previous post in which you said:
>
> > My arms were tired from paddling so that i could not mountain bike
> > right.
>
> I took that to mean that your arms were, um, tired. Thanks for clearing
> that up.
>
> Yeah, two paddlers in a double could run away from a solo paddler.
> Aren't they in a different racing class? If you almost tied 3 glass
> doubles you were doing alright.
>
> I'm afraid I can't explain how muscles adapt to increase endurance, I'm
> not up on the physiology of it. I just meant that exercises to build
> strength won't get you as far as paddling and more paddling.
>
> Good luck with your racing.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> Steve Cramer
> Athens, GA
No, there are not different classes . I think they want to encourage
people to be teams in adventure racing so they try to punish solo
racers. >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 09, 2006
Posts: 7
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:44 am
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
I wanted to respond to the endurance part of the inquiry. I am an
oarsman who took up Outrigger canoe paddling 18 months ago. So I have
gone from 1000 meter or 3 mile rows(3 to 18 minutes) to races 12-15
mile races lasting 2 hours. It took me at least 6 months to begin to
feel as if I could handle a 12 mile race at all. Now after training 2-3
times per week, I am fine. I also just turned 60, so for me it takes
longer to build up (and quicker to get out of shape). We do a variety
of workouts but you need to practice at an intensity greater than what
you will actually race. 30 minutes on, 10 minute rest. Do that 2 or 3
times in a workout. Since we switch sides, we will also do intervals :
8 "switches", then 6, then 4 then 2 , etc. This is at an even higher
intensity- the kind you would sprint with.
The name of the game is time in the saddle. I believe firmly in not
practicing the same distance as the race. Shorter more intense
intervals or longer less intense pieces(a 3 hour paddle, say). With a
bit more youth than I have, you will find that if you put in consistent
time each week you will feel a lot different in 6 months and your
muscles will get used to the punishment. You need to make sure you eat
properly. You will find that your muscles will get a lot stronger and
you will burn a lot of calories.
You have gotten a lot of other good advice; you should lift weights and
do cross training especially to make sure you do use your torso and yor
legs..A strong core is vital and proper technique is essential. HAve
fun!
Monk
Steve Cramer wrote:
> novice wrote:
> > Steve Cramer wrote:
> >> I have a feeling that it was more technique than boat.
> >>
> >> In your previous post you mentioned how tired your arms were after
> >> finishing the kayak leg of the race. That indicates that you're
> >> probably arm paddling, getting your power from your biceps. A couple of
> >> hours with a decent instructor will show you how to use torso rotation
> >> instead.
> >>
> >> > How much do you have to kayak to have an
> >> > intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> >>
> >> Some people kayak for years and never reach intermediate level because
> >> they try to self-teach and they don't know how. Weight training is
> >> useful, but kayaking is an endurance sport. Greg Barton, 2-time Olympic
> >> goal medalist, is a pretty skinny guy, not musclebound at all.
> >>
> >> It makes sense to get a kayak and get on the water with some
> >> instruction. Whatever gets you one the water is good for starting, but
> >> you might as well start with a long skinny boat that would be suitable
> >> for racing.
> >>
> >>
> >> novice wrote:
> >>> I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
> >>> 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
> >>> eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
> >>> finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
> >>> intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> >>> Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
> >>> build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
> >>> any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
> >>> exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steve Cramer
> >> Athens, GA
> >
> >
> > My arms were not sore during or after the race. I tried to push forward
> > with my arms and shoulders but the back of the seat was about 2 inches
> > away from my back. I did not have the sensation that my arms were tired
> > during race. People just had better boats or were in double kayaks. i
> > almost tied 3 double fiberglass kayaks. My arms felt weak in the
> > mountain biking section which was the last 3 hrs of race, though.
> >
> > Not sure if i understand what endurance is. How do the muscles adapt to
> > increase endurance?
> >
> I must have misunderstood your previous post in which you said:
>
> > My arms were tired from paddling so that i could not mountain bike
> > right.
>
> I took that to mean that your arms were, um, tired. Thanks for clearing
> that up.
>
> Yeah, two paddlers in a double could run away from a solo paddler.
> Aren't they in a different racing class? If you almost tied 3 glass
> doubles you were doing alright.
>
> I'm afraid I can't explain how muscles adapt to increase endurance, I'm
> not up on the physiology of it. I just meant that exercises to build
> strength won't get you as far as paddling and more paddling.
>
> Good luck with your racing.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> Steve Cramer
> Athens, GA >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 28, 2004
Posts: 37
|
(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:33 am
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
novice wrote:
> John Fereira wrote:
>> "novice" wrote in
>>
>>
>>> Thanks for the excellent response. Yes, I am from Vancouver. False
>>> creek is one place people kayak in Vancouver.
>> Coincidently, I paddled False Creek last weekend. I left the east coast at
>> 6:00am, arrived at 2:30pm, got to the hotel and changed, took a cab to
>> Ecomarine, and paddled for a few hours. I got back to the hotel with just
>> enough time to change, walk to a place on English bay for dinner with a
>> group of 10 or so others.
>>
>> Ecomarine had a Necky Looksha II sitting just outside the door. Don't know
>> if it was for sale but it would certainly be a good boat if you were serious
>> about racing.
> Quite the paddle:) There was a necky loosha at deep cove, too , but the
> guy said it was really tippy. I will get a fast boat next time. lesson
> learned.
>
Don't plan on just jumping in a 'fast tippy' boat and having it be fast.
It takes hours to get comfortable in any of the 20" kayaks, muchless
anything narrower. Core trunk muscles take a beating, and having to
'slap brace' every 5-6 strokes can seriously erode your average speed.
It also takes a little time to pad out the cockpit to fit you, adjust
the rudder pedals just so, and in general get comfy with the boat.
OTOH, once you get comfortable in a fast hull, you'll never go back to a
tub. I started paddling a Ruahine F1 (6.2Mx455mm). For a while, it was
a tossup who would win the swim battle(forget rolling). Now, I mostly
manage to keep it upright and am starting to work on going fast. When
it all comes together, it is a rocket. But it's taken 20+ hours to
where I feel comfortable in racing in it after paddling a CD Stratus
most of last season.
Marsh J
Minnesota >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 33
|
(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:54 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Marsh Jones wrote:
> novice wrote:
> > John Fereira wrote:
> >> "novice" wrote in
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks for the excellent response. Yes, I am from Vancouver. False
> >>> creek is one place people kayak in Vancouver.
> >> Coincidently, I paddled False Creek last weekend. I left the east coast at
> >> 6:00am, arrived at 2:30pm, got to the hotel and changed, took a cab to
> >> Ecomarine, and paddled for a few hours. I got back to the hotel with just
> >> enough time to change, walk to a place on English bay for dinner with a
> >> group of 10 or so others.
> >>
> >> Ecomarine had a Necky Looksha II sitting just outside the door. Don't know
> >> if it was for sale but it would certainly be a good boat if you were serious
> >> about racing.
> > Quite the paddle:) There was a necky loosha at deep cove, too , but the
> > guy said it was really tippy. I will get a fast boat next time. lesson
> > learned.
> >
> Don't plan on just jumping in a 'fast tippy' boat and having it be fast.
> It takes hours to get comfortable in any of the 20" kayaks, muchless
> anything narrower. Core trunk muscles take a beating, and having to
> 'slap brace' every 5-6 strokes can seriously erode your average speed.
> It also takes a little time to pad out the cockpit to fit you, adjust
> the rudder pedals just so, and in general get comfy with the boat.
> OTOH, once you get comfortable in a fast hull, you'll never go back to a
> tub. I started paddling a Ruahine F1 (6.2Mx455mm). For a while, it was
> a tossup who would win the swim battle(forget rolling). Now, I mostly
> manage to keep it upright and am starting to work on going fast. When
> it all comes together, it is a rocket. But it's taken 20+ hours to
> where I feel comfortable in racing in it after paddling a CD Stratus
> most of last season.
>
> Marsh J
> Minnesota
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience:) >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 06, 2006
Posts: 33
|
(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
60 is young nowadays. I notice that guys over 50 are winning the
adventure races in my area. I know what you mean about taking longer
to build up, though. Thanks for sharing:)
Monk Terry wrote:
> I wanted to respond to the endurance part of the inquiry. I am an
> oarsman who took up Outrigger canoe paddling 18 months ago. So I have
> gone from 1000 meter or 3 mile rows(3 to 18 minutes) to races 12-15
> mile races lasting 2 hours. It took me at least 6 months to begin to
> feel as if I could handle a 12 mile race at all. Now after training 2-3
> times per week, I am fine. I also just turned 60, so for me it takes
> longer to build up (and quicker to get out of shape). We do a variety
> of workouts but you need to practice at an intensity greater than what
> you will actually race. 30 minutes on, 10 minute rest. Do that 2 or 3
> times in a workout. Since we switch sides, we will also do intervals :
> 8 "switches", then 6, then 4 then 2 , etc. This is at an even higher
> intensity- the kind you would sprint with.
> The name of the game is time in the saddle. I believe firmly in not
> practicing the same distance as the race. Shorter more intense
> intervals or longer less intense pieces(a 3 hour paddle, say). With a
> bit more youth than I have, you will find that if you put in consistent
> time each week you will feel a lot different in 6 months and your
> muscles will get used to the punishment. You need to make sure you eat
> properly. You will find that your muscles will get a lot stronger and
> you will burn a lot of calories.
> You have gotten a lot of other good advice; you should lift weights and
> do cross training especially to make sure you do use your torso and yor
> legs..A strong core is vital and proper technique is essential. HAve
> fun!
>
> Monk
> Steve Cramer wrote:
> > novice wrote:
> > > Steve Cramer wrote:
> > >> I have a feeling that it was more technique than boat.
> > >>
> > >> In your previous post you mentioned how tired your arms were after
> > >> finishing the kayak leg of the race. That indicates that you're
> > >> probably arm paddling, getting your power from your biceps. A couple of
> > >> hours with a decent instructor will show you how to use torso rotation
> > >> instead.
> > >>
> > >> > How much do you have to kayak to have an
> > >> > intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> > >>
> > >> Some people kayak for years and never reach intermediate level because
> > >> they try to self-teach and they don't know how. Weight training is
> > >> useful, but kayaking is an endurance sport. Greg Barton, 2-time Olympic
> > >> goal medalist, is a pretty skinny guy, not musclebound at all.
> > >>
> > >> It makes sense to get a kayak and get on the water with some
> > >> instruction. Whatever gets you one the water is good for starting, but
> > >> you might as well start with a long skinny boat that would be suitable
> > >> for racing.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> novice wrote:
> > >>> I did a race in an inlet/fjord after kayaking 4 times. My time was 1 hr
> > >>> 40 minutes while the fastest guy was 52 minutes. I had a plastic necky
> > >>> eskia. How much faster would i have been with a better boat? I was
> > >>> finished last, btw. How much do you have to kayak to have an
> > >>> intermediate skill level? What type of weight training should I do ?
> > >>> Does it make sense to buy a cheap plastic kayak to practice with to
> > >>> build up muscles? I'm renting right now and it is expensive. Is there
> > >>> any othere exercises to strenghten my upper body as I really dont
> > >>> exercise my upper body . I could start swimming.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Steve Cramer
> > >> Athens, GA
> > >
> > >
> > > My arms were not sore during or after the race. I tried to push forward
> > > with my arms and shoulders but the back of the seat was about 2 inches
> > > away from my back. I did not have the sensation that my arms were tired
> > > during race. People just had better boats or were in double kayaks. i
> > > almost tied 3 double fiberglass kayaks. My arms felt weak in the
> > > mountain biking section which was the last 3 hrs of race, though.
> > >
> > > Not sure if i understand what endurance is. How do the muscles adapt to
> > > increase endurance?
> > >
> > I must have misunderstood your previous post in which you said:
> >
> > > My arms were tired from paddling so that i could not mountain bike
> > > right.
> >
> > I took that to mean that your arms were, um, tired. Thanks for clearing
> > that up.
> >
> > Yeah, two paddlers in a double could run away from a solo paddler.
> > Aren't they in a different racing class? If you almost tied 3 glass
> > doubles you were doing alright.
> >
> > I'm afraid I can't explain how muscles adapt to increase endurance, I'm
> > not up on the physiology of it. I just meant that exercises to build
> > strength won't get you as far as paddling and more paddling.
> >
> > Good luck with your racing.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > --
> > Steve Cramer
> > Athens, GA >> Stay informed about: How hard is it to become a kayak racer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
| Related Topics: | inflatable vs hard shell - ok who has had to make this decision or who has both? I think the inflatable would be ultra convenient but does it feel cheap and unstable? I plan to kayak Florida rivers/lakes/swamps/intercoastals. Maybe some Gulf. Thanks for your help Chris
looking for a kayak - Hello, I'm looking for a new kayak. I've been shopping around and have narrowed it down to a Necky Looksha IV, but I'm not sure whether or not I should buy a plastic or a fiberglass boat. Can someone tell me what the difference, aside from one being..
WTB: Sit on top kayak - Looking to buy 2-person sit on top such as an Ocean Kayak Malibu 2 or similar. Will consider as part of a trade for my 17' Necky Looksha IV poly. Located in MA. buchs4@comcast.net
FS in MA: Sea Kayak - 17' Necky Looksha IV 17' yellow poly sea kayak. 2 bulkheads, rudder. Will include sprayskirt and cockpit cover (approx. $80 value). 1998 (10-15 trips). Well maintained. Retails new $1,200-$1,300. Asking $800. See review at:..
FS: Kayak - Perception "Overflow" whitewater kayak for sale. Great Condition! Asking $300. 814-355-0040. |
|
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Profile
Private Messages
Log in
