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Since: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 246
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:04 pm
Post subject: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy?
Archived from groups: rec>boats>building (more info?)
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My outboard, 20hp Honda, jumped off my transom yesterday and hit the
pavement at 20-25mph. No critical damage but knocked a gapping hole,
the size of a golf ball, in the cast aluminum lower pan, the one below
the power head, next to the tiller handle. Fortunately, I have the
knocked out piece and it fits back in the hole perfectly. My first
thought was to have it tig welded. But it's in a really tight place
and I doubt I'd get a good weld without removing the pan which means
taking the whole power head off. I could tack weld it but that'd leave
a crack that could leak splashing water, not to mention look kinda bad
(as if it doesn't look bad enough).
So now I'm thinking about just using epoxy to glue it in. Mind you,
it doesn't need to be terribly strong. On the other hand, I don't want
it to fall out by just jostling either.
Anybody ever tried epoxy to glue cast aluminum parts back together?
How well will it hold? And for how long?
Thanks in advance,
Phantman |
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Since: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 32
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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PhantMan.DeleteThis@nospam.invalid wrote:
> My outboard, 20hp Honda, jumped off my transom yesterday and hit the
> pavement at 20-25mph. No critical damage but knocked a gapping hole,
> the size of a golf ball, in the cast aluminum lower pan, the one below
> the power head, next to the tiller handle. Fortunately, I have the
> knocked out piece and it fits back in the hole perfectly. My first
> thought was to have it tig welded. But it's in a really tight place
> and I doubt I'd get a good weld without removing the pan which means
> taking the whole power head off. I could tack weld it but that'd leave
> a crack that could leak splashing water, not to mention look kinda bad
> (as if it doesn't look bad enough).
> So now I'm thinking about just using epoxy to glue it in. Mind you,
> it doesn't need to be terribly strong. On the other hand, I don't want
> it to fall out by just jostling either.
> Anybody ever tried epoxy to glue cast aluminum parts back together?
> How well will it hold? And for how long?
> Thanks in advance,
> Phantman
Epoxy won't do it very well, but there are several urethanes and
acrylates which will.
Try www.loctite.com for more. Look at u50fl for a urethane. They have a
50 ml tube and mixing nozzle that might be the right size for what you need.
They have several acrylate type adhesives that work well also, but I
can't come up with any suggestions off the top of my head.
--
“No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy”
Sun Tzu |
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Since: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 246
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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PhantMan wrote:
>> Anybody ever tried epoxy to glue cast aluminum parts back together?
dazed and confuzzed wrote:
>Try www.loctite.com for more. Look at u50fl for a urethane.
Thanks. Is that a transposition? I found u05fl. Says it can be used on
metal, wood, etc.
>They have several acrylate type adhesives that work well also
I went through their selection process (nice website that) and it
pointed me to Depend 330, a no mix adhesive. The tech sheet says
"Technology = Acrylic" and under that it says "Chemical Type =
Urethane methacrylate ester". Soooo.... I guess it's an Acrylate,
huh? (obviously, the tech sheet is beyond me).
Also says it's good to bond metal, wood, ferrite, etc. then goes on to
talk about bond strength of grit blasted mild steel. Didn't mention
cast aluminum but I assume it'll work on that as well.
Anyhow, thanks for pointing me there.
PhantMan >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Since: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 32
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:16 am
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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PhantMan RemoveThis @nospam.invalid wrote:
> PhantMan wrote:
>
>>>Anybody ever tried epoxy to glue cast aluminum parts back together?
>
>
> dazed and confuzzed wrote:
>
>>Try www.loctite.com for more. Look at u50fl for a urethane.
>
>
> Thanks. Is that a transposition? I found u05fl. Says it can be used on
> metal, wood, etc.
Yes, it was a trasposition.
>
>
>>They have several acrylate type adhesives that work well also
>
>
> I went through their selection process (nice website that) and it
> pointed me to Depend 330, a no mix adhesive. The tech sheet says
> "Technology = Acrylic" and under that it says "Chemical Type =
> Urethane methacrylate ester". Soooo.... I guess it's an Acrylate,
> huh?
Yep
(obviously, the tech sheet is beyond me).
> Also says it's good to bond metal, wood, ferrite, etc. then goes on to
> talk about bond strength of grit blasted mild steel. Didn't mention
> cast aluminum but I assume it'll work on that as well.
Keep looking. You'll find some that are excellent on aluminum.
>
> Anyhow, thanks for pointing me there.
>
> PhantMan
>
--
“No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy”
Sun Tzu >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Since: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:09 am
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Your simplest solution would be to grind a moderate bevel on the loose
piece, get it welded to the extent possible, and then caulk the whole seam
with 5200. Don't go hi tech. - Bill
<PhantMan DeleteThis @nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:3vark15ln88kc4upclc6j6c3hca6j7191m@4ax.com...
> My outboard, 20hp Honda, jumped off my transom yesterday and hit the
> pavement at 20-25mph. No critical damage but knocked a gapping hole,
> the size of a golf ball, in the cast aluminum lower pan, the one below
> the power head, next to the tiller handle. Fortunately, I have the
> knocked out piece and it fits back in the hole perfectly. My first
> thought was to have it tig welded. But it's in a really tight place
> and I doubt I'd get a good weld without removing the pan which means
> taking the whole power head off. I could tack weld it but that'd leave
> a crack that could leak splashing water, not to mention look kinda bad
> (as if it doesn't look bad enough).
> So now I'm thinking about just using epoxy to glue it in. Mind you,
> it doesn't need to be terribly strong. On the other hand, I don't want
> it to fall out by just jostling either.
> Anybody ever tried epoxy to glue cast aluminum parts back together?
> How well will it hold? And for how long?
> Thanks in advance,
> Phantman >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Since: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 246
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:43 am
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bill Kreamer" wrote:
>Your simplest solution would be to grind a moderate bevel on the loose
>piece
Actually, all the jagged edges match up perfectly and the piece fits
back together like a jig saw puzzle. Held in place, you can barely see
the seam where it fits together. I was thinking it'd be better to glue
it back just the way it is. Am I wrong for a reason I'm unaware?
>get it welded to the extent possible, and then caulk the whole seam
>with 5200.
In fact, I'd received that very advice at the coffee shop this
morning. Except in reverse order. Stick it together with 5200 (I was
told it's a Urethane based product) to bond and seal it, then
tack/spot weld it where possible for added strength.
>Don't go hi tech
..... uh.... I dunno Bill, around here, 3M 5200 IS high tech lol!
Thanks 
PhantMan >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Since: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 246
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 32
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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PhantMan.RemoveThis@nospam.invalid wrote:
> dazed and confuzzed wrote:
>
>>Try www.loctite.com for more. Look at u50fl for a urethane.
>
>
>
> D&C,
> What's your opinion of 3M's 5200 for this? (I already have a tube of
> it).
>
> PhantMan
>
never tried it with aluminum. HOWEVER:
THe issue with aluminum is that the bond is usually to the oxide layer
that forms rather than to the aluminum itself. Some folks have had good
luck with epoxy and some form of "brillo" type pad or sandpaper to break
this layer so that the epoxy can bond to the aluminum. With a cast part,
you might get enough"tooth" to make 5200 work.
I dunno, never having tried to bond aluminum with 5200.
Just because it is a urethane doesn't mean it will bond well to aluminum.
I'd stay away from welding after bonding though.
I think that the advice to TIG the parts is probably the best for a long
term solution. You can sand or grind the seam flat, and with a little
paint, no one will know.
--
“No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy”
Sun Tzu >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Since: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:04:34 -0500, PhantMan.RemoveThis@nospam.invalid wrote:
>My outboard, 20hp Honda, jumped off my transom yesterday and hit the
>pavement at 20-25mph. No critical damage but knocked a gapping hole,
>the size of a golf ball, in the cast aluminum lower pan, the one below
>the power head, next to the tiller handle. Fortunately, I have the
>knocked out piece and it fits back in the hole perfectly. My first
>thought was to have it tig welded. But it's in a really tight place
>and I doubt I'd get a good weld without removing the pan which means
>taking the whole power head off. I could tack weld it but that'd leave
>a crack that could leak splashing water, not to mention look kinda bad
>(as if it doesn't look bad enough).
>So now I'm thinking about just using epoxy to glue it in.
Check out JB Weld. The stuff is absolutely phenominal. I've heard of
people bonding pieces of engine block back on with it and running the
engine for years.
Corky Scott >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Since: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 246
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Jun 25, 2003
Posts: 835
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> THe issue with aluminum is that the bond is usually to the oxide layer
> that forms rather than to the aluminum itself. Some folks have had good
> luck with epoxy and some form of "brillo" type pad or sandpaper to break
> this layer so that the epoxy can bond to the aluminum. With a cast part,
> you might get enough"tooth" to make 5200 work.
If it breaks and he puts it back a few days later there won't be
an oxide layer yet.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Since: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 32
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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William R. Watt wrote:
>>THe issue with aluminum is that the bond is usually to the oxide layer
>>that forms rather than to the aluminum itself. Some folks have had good
>>luck with epoxy and some form of "brillo" type pad or sandpaper to break
>>this layer so that the epoxy can bond to the aluminum. With a cast part,
>>you might get enough"tooth" to make 5200 work.
>
>
> If it breaks and he puts it back a few days later there won't be
> an oxide layer yet.
THere will be an oxide layer thick enough to cause a poor bond in less
than a second after the part breaks again.
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
> homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
> warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned
--
“No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy”
Sun Tzu >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Posts: 193
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:04 am
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:15 am
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"William R. Watt" <ag384.DeleteThis@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:dimlkj$bip$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
>
> > THe issue with aluminum is that the bond is usually to the oxide layer
> > that forms rather than to the aluminum itself. Some folks have had good
> > luck with epoxy and some form of "brillo" type pad or sandpaper to break
> > this layer so that the epoxy can bond to the aluminum. With a cast part,
> > you might get enough"tooth" to make 5200 work.
>
> If it breaks and he puts it back a few days later there won't be
> an oxide layer yet.
Aluminum oxide forms within minutes....
Meindert >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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Since: Jun 25, 2003
Posts: 835
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with epoxy? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I didn't know aluminum oxidized within minutes so I did a test.
Part of a piece of aluminum was scraped removing any oxidation and making
the scraped part bright and shiny. Two hours later the scraped part was
still just as bright and shiny. Eighteen hours later the scraped part was
not as bright and shiny. Part of the surface which had been scraped the
day before was rescraped and the difference was noticeable, the newly
scraped surface was brighter than the surface scraped the day before, but
both scraped surfaces were still a lot brighter than the part of the
surface which had not been scraped at all.
I would conclude that there is some oxidation in the first 24 hours.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned >> Stay informed about: Anybody tried glueing cast aluminum parts together with ep.. |
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