Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod..

On 12 Mar 2006 12:19:18 -0800, dougp1976.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:

>I purchased a Raymarine model 100 autopilot. I now need to purchase
>the compass and rudder sensor. How do I identify the correct items to
>purchase? Are there particular model or part numbers that I should
>look for or stay away from?
>
>Doug

a) consult the manual
b) consult Raymarine (or a local Raymarine dealer)


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

Doug,
This is interesting because:
A: I have never heard of an autopilot model 100.
B: All the Raymarine everything a model that start with a letter.
C: The nearest autopilot to 100 is st1000(+) and this is a single unit
tiller pilot and requires only mounting and power.

Next thing to do is read the complete model number a go to
http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/Default.asp?site=1&section=3
and download the manual.
Then, if you still have questions, cone on back here. I here a lot and
will be glad to help if I can.
Matt Colie

dougp1976 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
> I purchased a Raymarine model 100 autopilot. I now need to purchase
> the compass and rudder sensor. How do I identify the correct items to
> purchase? Are there particular model or part numbers that I should
> look for or stay away from?
>
> Doug
>
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:14:07 -0500, Matt Colie
<mattcolie DeleteThis @providenospam.net> wrote:

>Doug,
>This is interesting because:
>A: I have never heard of an autopilot model 100.
>B: All the Raymarine everything a model that start with a letter.
>C: The nearest autopilot to 100 is st1000(+) and this is a single unit
>tiller pilot and requires only mounting and power.

I believe it is one of the old Autohelm units.

The manual is online in the "retired equipment" section of Raymarine's
customer service site, but there is no mention of part numbers for
sensors. There is a rudder angle sensor for sale on EBAY that looks
like it would probably work. They are all about the same I believe.
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

is a rudder angle sensor necessary for an autopilot? I thought the
heading of the boat would be sufficient.
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

"luc" <luc_darquistade.DeleteThis@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:1142260006.353784.81510@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> is a rudder angle sensor necessary for an autopilot? I thought the
> heading of the boat would be sufficient.
>
There is no one sentence answer possible. Lots of boats steer to their
owners satisfaction without a rudder angle sensor. Most boats steer better
with a rudder sensor incorporated. Some boats can become absolutely unstable
and dangerous under autopilot control, and in these boats, rudder angle
input is absolutely necessary.
It's hard to go wrong with the sensor, and with many vessels (and
owners), a rudder angle indicator at helm stations is a great docking aid!

Old Chief Lynn
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

who cares what the rudder does, as long as the boat is going in the
right direction?
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

"luc" <luc_darquistade.TakeThisOut@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:1142295506.893349.49870@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> who cares what the rudder does, as long as the boat is going in the
> right direction?

How true. However sometimes the boat is not going in the right
direction! Now, a decent autopilot has to "think" how quickly the "wrong"
direction came about, how long does the Captain want to wait until we are
back on course, how many over (or under) steering swings he is comfortable
with, and how often these course errors are taking place.
How much should the autopilot move the rudder to achieve what makes the
Captain happy? How does the autopilot know when the rudder's pump or grinder
has moved the rudder to the correct position? Computer determined timed
motor runs are often used, but are not nearly as accurate and positive as
simply telling the "Iron Mike" where the darned rudder is at all times!

Old Chief Lynn
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

In article <dv4328$mg8$1@emma.aioe.org>,
"Lynn Coffelt" <coffelt2 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:

> "luc" <luc_darquistade DeleteThis @yahoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:1142260006.353784.81510@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > is a rudder angle sensor necessary for an autopilot? I thought the
> > heading of the boat would be sufficient.
> >
> There is no one sentence answer possible. Lots of boats steer to their
> owners satisfaction without a rudder angle sensor. Most boats steer better
> with a rudder sensor incorporated. Some boats can become absolutely unstable
> and dangerous under autopilot control, and in these boats, rudder angle
> input is absolutely necessary.
> It's hard to go wrong with the sensor, and with many vessels (and
> owners), a rudder angle indicator at helm stations is a great docking aid!
>
> Old Chief Lynn
>
>

Just an note here....

Most of the Rudder Angle Sensers are just Linear Taper Pots, that drive
a Feedback Loop in AutoPilot Rate Control Circuit, BUT the Wood Freeman
RAS is very different, as it uses a Hall Effect Device, and is basically
the same device as the one in the Steering Compass. They both feed
OPAmps in the BrainBox. The Compass Senser drives the Course Feedback
Loop, and the RAS feeds the Rate Feedback Loop, and the Rudder Angle
Indicator Drive.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

On 13 Mar 2006 16:18:26 -0800, "luc" <luc_darquistade.RemoveThis@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>who cares what the rudder does, as long as the boat is going in the
>right direction?

Particularly with a single engine boat, and sometime with twins, you
use the rudders to direct prop thrust during slow speed maneuvers.
Knowing in advance where the rudders are saves a bit of trial and
error with the wheel.
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

In article <1142295506.893349.49870 DeleteThis @i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"luc" <luc_darquistade DeleteThis @yahoo.fr> wrote:

> who cares what the rudder does, as long as the boat is going in the
> right direction?

Obviously you have never piloted or docked a large vessel.......
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

"luc" <luc_darquistade DeleteThis @yahoo.fr> wrote in news:1142295506.893349.49870
@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> who cares what the rudder does, as long as the boat is going in the
> right direction?
>
>

You'd have to watch our B&G Network Pilot steer a perfect course on
Lionheart with its rudder position sensor to see the difference. She also
has gyro input for rate-of-turn from a Raymarine Smart Heading Sensor.
Watching the wheel go through a turn at the moment of a waypoint turn is
like watching a ghost at the helm.
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

"Larry" <noone RemoveThis @home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97875577CE18Fnoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> "luc" <luc_darquistade RemoveThis @yahoo.fr> wrote in news:1142295506.893349.49870
> @i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> You'd have to watch our B&G Network Pilot steer a perfect course on
> Lionheart with its rudder position sensor to see the difference. She also
> has gyro input for rate-of-turn from a Raymarine Smart Heading Sensor.
> Watching the wheel go through a turn at the moment of a waypoint turn is
> like watching a ghost at the helm.

Larry,

How did you connect the Smart Heading Sensor to the B&G Network Pilot? I've
got both of these (I'm using the Raymarine "gyro" to stabilize the radar
display and MARPA functions), but looking at the B&G manuals I can't figure
out how to attach the gyro input. The NMEA data decoded by the Pilot
doesn't include the ROT sentences

Contact me off-group if you prefer: XpaulX RemoveThis @XsailvalisX.com
(remove the x's)

Thanks,
Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod.. 

"Paul" <null.DeleteThis@null.null> wrote in
news:4418617a$0$95973$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:

> Larry,
>
> How did you connect the Smart Heading Sensor to the B&G Network Pilot?
> I've got both of these (I'm using the Raymarine "gyro" to stabilize
> the radar display and MARPA functions), but looking at the B&G manuals
> I can't figure out how to attach the gyro input. The NMEA data
> decoded by the Pilot doesn't include the ROT sentences
>
The SHS is Seatalk and connected to the RL70CRC display, which does the
translation to NMEA 0183 which it dutifully outputs to our Noland
Multiplexer with all the other Seatalk data that's turned on in the menu
of the RL70CRC's firmware. One of the loads on the output of the
multiplexer is the Network Pilot's NMEA input hooked to the master data
output bus.

In researching your question, as it has been a long time ago since I
installed this system, I looked into the Network Pilot Installation
Manual on:
http://www.bandg.com/pdfs/networkpilotinstallationmanual.pdf

It says on page 1-9 that Pilot uses:
"The Network PILOT uses the follow data from NMEA:
Cross Track Error (XTE), Speed Over Ground (SOG), Bearing: current
position to destination waypoint, Bearing: origin waypoint to destination
waypoint, Distance: current position to waypoint
Waypoint number
The following NMEA sentences are decoded, Note $ID is any NMEA
talker:
$IDAPA XTE, bearing origin to destination waypoint
$IDAPB XTE, bearing origin to destination waypoint,
bearing to waypoint
$IDRMB XTE, bearing and distance to waypoint
$IDXTE XTE
$IDVTG Speed over Ground
$IDBWR Bearing and Distance to waypoint rhumb,
waypoint number
$IDBWC Bearing and Distance to waypoint great circle,
waypoint number"

http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/SubmittedFiles/Handbooks/Autopilots/81
198_1www.pdf
Over on the Smart Heading Sensor manual, page 32 in the specs, it says
the SHS puts out v2.3's $APHDM statement the v1.5 Network Pilot does not
read....hmm....

Now, I'm wondering if what Network Pilot is getting is a translated $ID
statement from The Cap'n, which digests the data from the multiplexer
before spitting out NMEA data to the bus. The possibility exists that
RL70CRC's chart plotter is also digesting SHS's $APHDM into other
statements before putting them on the NMEA bus, too. Both $ID and $AP
statements are continuously buzzing by on the main bus, and it does seem
to make the turns much smoother from the Pilot when SHS is online through
the RL70CRC plotter's firmware when a turn is forced upon it.

Or, SHS's data may never get to Pilot and Pilot is simply running on its
stored rate-of-turn data it keeps updating every time it turns the boat,
internally, which is also in the Pilot manual....??

By the way, which actuator and rudder position sensor are you using?
I've had some trouble keeping the hose clamped linear position sensor
tight to the linear actuator on Lionheart's installation. The clamps
seem to work loose over time as the linear sensor's mechanics don't seem
to be in perfect alignment, no matter what we do, as the plunger goes in
and out. When the hose clamps let it slip, of course, Pilot goes crazy
with the bad rudder position data.

Are you using the remote control on Pilot, too, and what do you think of
its operation?

A boat can never have too many electronic boxes or data statements...(c;
 >> Stay informed about: Which fluxgate compass and rudder sensor for Raymarine mod..