"New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson

Well ... the Larson comes with a guy with a beard and 2 little kids ... -1
point. The Larson has imo an excellent trailer ... with brakes ... I'd need
those brakes if I was trailering this size boat ... 2 points. They both are
(look to be) equally powered ... 4.3 mercruiser, alpha outdrive ... but is
that adequate power for 20 ' fiberglass boat? I myself don't think so if I
was planning on bringing along company. The Bayliner looks to have been well
looked after ... or maybe hardly used ... 1 point. Does that look like a new
lower unit? Hmmm ... 1/2 point.

If it was me and I could upgrade the trailer, I'd take (virtually that is)
the Bayliner.


"Trevor" <tmiller DeleteThis @iqep.com> wrote in message
news:3a555a89.0310021250.71499067@posting.google.com...
 > Given both in good condition (survey etc) - might I get some feedback
 > from this fine group on the following two boats?
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/2/50710772.htm</font" target="_blank">http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/2/50710772.htm</font</a>>
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/4/8/40244748.htm</font" target="_blank">http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/4/8/40244748.htm</font</a>>
 >
 > Thanks much...
 >
 > tcGb,
 > -trevor<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

To answer your horsepower question I had a 1995 Bayliner 2052 Cuddy much like
the one in the ad. It was powered by a 4.3LX 190 HP engine and with just me in
the boat would top out a 57 mph (according to the GPS). This was before the
selective availability was turned off so I don't know if that affected the
speed readings. With 5 aboard 4 adults and 1 child it would still do 52 MPH so
it was fast.

It was not a bad boat but I moved up to a 26 footer after this boat to get back
into the cruiser catagory. The Larson looks nice too so you are the one that
has to make the choice as to which suits your needs best. A 20' boat is mainly
IMO an inland lake or river boat although I did have mine out on Lake Erie
several times but only during "nice" conditions.

Gardening Rule: When weeding, the best way to make sure you are removing a
weed and not a valuable plant is to pull on it. If it comes out of the ground
easily, it is a valuable plant.
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
anyway!

Bob Dimond


P.S. I moved up to a 23. Wish I could move up to a 26 though :^)

 >
 > It was not a bad boat but I moved up to a 26 footer after this boat to
get back
 > into the cruiser catagory. The Larson looks nice too so you are the one that
 > has to make the choice as to which suits your needs best. A 20' boat is mainly
 > IMO an inland lake or river boat although I did have mine out on Lake Erie
 > several times but only during "nice" conditions.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

 >Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
 >If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
 >weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
 >anyway!

Egging a guy out into conditions beyond the capabilities of his boat is not the
mark of a serious mariner.

Might as well check the VHF marine weather forecast, as well as current
conditions. Might as well pay careful attention to reports from monitoring
stations in the weather quarter. Might as well consult a barometer and see if
it's rising or falling at your specific location.
The weather doesn't give a rip snort how tough you or I think we might be, or
pay much attention to the marketing claims of one builder vs. another.

Light displacement, low freeboard, shallow draft boats with flat transoms (not
to mention open foredecks, no bow flare, etc) are fair weather playthings. Just
because you can take one out in ridiculous conditions and avoid death, (a
percentage of the time), doesn't make the practice advisable.

It's one thing to get caught out in the snot and have to work your way to
shelter. It's another thing entirely to put out in a small boat into the teeth
of a big wind.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

Sorry, Gould, but I don't completely agree. First of all I'm not telling
people to make a crossing in gale force winds. Second a small boat can
handle quite a bit IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MINIMIZE WEATHER ON YOUR BOAT!

Also, I've said in previous post. If you are using a boat to travel any
distance and/or overnight away form home port on Lake Erie, you better
DAMN WELL have a feel for a little rough water, because sooner or later IT
WILL FIND YOU.

Gould, Lake Erie can kick up to a mess in a little as fifteen minutes. If
you an hour away from homeport then what? It's better to get some
PLANNED experience going out a little at a time but staying close to home
port to get acquainted/acclimated to harder conditions, rather than sit
tied to the dock all season or worse, caught having to travel a great
distance in bad water without any prior experience.

That's my take on it. If you want to put a derrogatory label on me by all
means.

Bob Dimond



In article <20031003165556.00143.00000187.TakeThisOut@mb-m27.aol.com>,
gould0738.TakeThisOut@aol.com (Gould 0738) wrote:

  > >Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
  > >If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
  > >weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
  > >anyway!
 >
 > Egging a guy out into conditions beyond the capabilities of his boat is
not the
 > mark of a serious mariner.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

Hey Bob! didn't know you were up here..

Bob D. wrote:
 > Sorry, Gould, but I don't completely agree. First of all I'm not telling
 > people to make a crossing in gale force winds. Second a small boat can
 > handle quite a bit IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MINIMIZE WEATHER ON YOUR BOAT!
 >
 > Also, I've said in previous post. If you are using a boat to travel any
 > distance and/or overnight away form home port on Lake Erie, you better
 > DAMN WELL have a feel for a little rough water, because sooner or later IT
 > WILL FIND YOU.
 >
 > Gould, Lake Erie can kick up to a mess in a little as fifteen minutes. If
 > you an hour away from homeport then what? It's better to get some
 > PLANNED experience going out a little at a time but staying close to home
 > port to get acquainted/acclimated to harder conditions, rather than sit
 > tied to the dock all season or worse, caught having to travel a great
 > distance in bad water without any prior experience.
 >
 > That's my take on it. If you want to put a derrogatory label on me by all
 > means.
 >
 > Bob Dimond
 >
 >
 >
 > In article <20031003165556.00143.00000187.RemoveThis@mb-m27.aol.com>,
 > gould0738.RemoveThis@aol.com (Gould 0738) wrote:
 >
 >
   >>>Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
   >>>If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
   >>>weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
   >>>anyway!
  >>
  >>Egging a guy out into conditions beyond the capabilities of his boat is
 >
 > not the
 >
  >>mark of a serious mariner.
  >><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

 >Gould, Lake Erie can kick up to a mess in a little as fifteen minutes. If
 >you an hour away from homeport then what? It's better to get some
 >PLANNED experience going out a little at a time but staying close to home
 >port to get acquainted/acclimated to harder conditions, rather than sit
 >tied to the dock all season or worse, caught having to travel a great
 >distance in bad water without any prior experience.
 >
 >That's my take on it. If you want to put a derrogatory label on me by all
 >means.
 >
 >Bob Dimond
 >
 >
 >
 >In article <20031003165556.00143.00000187.DeleteThis@mb-m27.aol.com>,
 >gould0738@aol.com (Gould 0738) wrote:
 >
   >> >Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
   >> >If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
   >> >weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
   >> >anyway!
  >>
  >> Egging a guy out into conditions beyond the capabilities of his boat is
 >not the
  >> mark of a serious mariner.


We agree that one needs to be prepared for snotty weather, and that it can't
always be avoided. We disagree that it is prudent to put out into conditions
that are marginal and unstable to begin with, what if they get worse?

I'm not trying to put a label on you as an individual, but I think that your
weather philosophy is not as well developed as might be. IMO. Others will, can,
and should disagree.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

I have a question. I have just recently bought a 1986 SeaRay 21' mid
cabin. What type of weather will this boat handle? I would feel
comfortable in 2 foot waves. Am I being foolish? What point should I say
this is not safe for my boat? I am saying lake Ontario. I mostly cruise
the finger lakes but would like to try Ontario next year. Thanks, Scott

Gould 0738 wrote:
 >
  > >Gould, Lake Erie can kick up to a mess in a little as fifteen minutes. If
  > >you an hour away from homeport then what? It's better to get some
  > >PLANNED experience going out a little at a time but staying close to home
  > >port to get acquainted/acclimated to harder conditions, rather than sit
  > >tied to the dock all season or worse, caught having to travel a great
  > >distance in bad water without any prior experience.
  > >
  > >That's my take on it. If you want to put a derrogatory label on me by all
  > >means.
  > >
  > >Bob Dimond
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >In article <20031003165556.00143.00000187.DeleteThis@mb-m27.aol.com>,
  > >gould0738@aol.com (Gould 0738) wrote:
  > >
   > >> >Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
   > >> >If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
   > >> >weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
   > >> >anyway!
   > >>
   > >> Egging a guy out into conditions beyond the capabilities of his boat is
  > >not the
   > >> mark of a serious mariner.
 >
 > We agree that one needs to be prepared for snotty weather, and that it can't
 > always be avoided. We disagree that it is prudent to put out into conditions
 > that are marginal and unstable to begin with, what if they get worse?
 >
 > I'm not trying to put a label on you as an individual, but I think that your
 > weather philosophy is not as well developed as might be. IMO. Others will, can,
 > and should disagree.


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 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

 >I have a question. I have just recently bought a 1986 SeaRay 21' mid
 >cabin. What type of weather will this boat handle? I would feel
 >comfortable in 2 foot waves.

Depending on wave characteristic, (standing chop on one extreme and rolling
swells on the other), the answer will vary.

Depending on your personal seamanship, the answer will vary. If you are
uncertain, uncomfortable, or unhappy.....it doesn't make any difference what
the boat will withstand. You are more likely to make mistakes if you get
frightened, and that could result in mishandling that will negate some of the
boat's designed in survival characteristics.

Personal standard? When standing chop is even with or well above the available
freeboard, it's time to get concerned. That's not an absolute, and there are
other approaches. I know a guy who tries to figure 3" of chop per thousand
pounds displacement as a safety level for small boats, and well known Pacific
NW boating author Dale Petersen ("Day by Day to Alaska"..runs to AK in a
Bayliner Trophy) has a formula based on LWL vs. wave height.

Got a small boat? Carry a great big barometer.

An error on the side of caution is a wise man's error when it comes to weather.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

 >From: sailbad_d_sinner DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Bob D.)

 >Aww.. come on! A 20 foot boat out in Lake Erie only in nice conditions?
 >If you overnight in it you might as well take it out in a little bit of
 >weather 'cause you and I both know on Lake Erie you going to hit it
 >anyway!

 >Bob Dimond

My opinion only. The 2052 Capri was to light for Lake Erie in anything over 3'.
Yes I could go out on the lake but would not have an enjoyable time. On the
thousands of Michigans inland lakes or the Detroit River the Capri was a great
boat. I personally chose not to go out on Lake Erie when it was rough. When I
had my first Bayliner a 2450 Ciera a totally different story. Same with the 26
the 28 or my current 30. They could and did and do handle the rough stuff. Made
a run to Kelleys Island the weekend before last. Left on Friday catching the
remmnants of hurricane Isabel. Four to six foot rollers. When I pulled into
Kelleys a couple of guys helped me to tie up to the dock. They wondered why I
would come across in such lousy conditions. I told them, "I was doing
research." What research they asked, "I was researching whether or not
Bayliners hold together in rough conditions." I made it there, they had a good
laugh and that was that. Heck, my son followed me in his jet ski. I tried to
talk him out of it but he wanted to make the trip. It was too rough for him to
keep up so I had to stop several times for him to catch up.

Again, the Capri is a nice boat but the smaller ones are not rough water boats
IMO. Knowing how nasty Lake Erie can get in a very short time I chose not to
put myself in harms way with that boat.

Life is sexually transmitted.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:25:41 -0400, scottht <scottht.TakeThisOut@swns.net> wrote:

 >I have a question. I have just recently bought a 1986 SeaRay 21' mid
 >cabin. What type of weather will this boat handle? I would feel
 >comfortable in 2 foot waves. Am I being foolish? What point should I say
 >this is not safe for my boat? I am saying lake Ontario. I mostly cruise
 >the finger lakes but would like to try Ontario next year. Thanks, Scott

I had a 1989 220 Sundancer which measured almost 24 ft and weighed
around 4000#

I think you will be fine in 2 foot waves, go slow in 3 ft and really
slow in anything over 3 ft.

I went across Lake Erie several times with no ill effects/problems.

Like everyone says : be prepared and watch the weather.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

Bob Dimond->

Sorry, Gould, but I don't completely agree. First of all I'm not telling
people to make a crossing in gale force winds. Second a small boat can
handle quite a bit IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MINIMIZE WEATHER ON YOUR BOAT!


df->

So how does one minimize weather on a boat? Say a 24' Sedan cruiser on
Lake Michigan?
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson 

Larry!

Yeah I tend to keep a lower profile unless I feel I can contribute
something on the subject...

 > Hey Bob! didn't know you were up here..
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: "New" boat comparison - Bayliner vs Larson