Is it my battery or alternator that let me down?

I will definitly check the connections to see if they are dirty and try the
alternator trick to see if the alternator is bad.

I just got the boat a month or so ago and the guy said the battery was a
couple years old. I took it out and it is a deep cycle battery with 575CCA.
I was reading online and I guess this isnt even the right kind of battery to
be starting my boat with. Im going to try charging this battery back up and
purchasing the correct type of battery for starting the boat up.

Hopefully its just the battery or even better woudl be bad connection.

Will I be able to put a starter battery and this deepcycle battery in there
with some kind of a switch and then switch to the deep cycle when the boat
is off?

--C
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

You've gotten some good answers but I want to repeat a couple:

I always start solving battery, charging, electrical or starting problems by
cleaning the battery and other affected terminals. For typical car
batteries which have large terminals on the battery and large connetions on
the cables, I'd advise you to get a little terminal tool at the auto parts
store (it has a two part brush - one part made for cleaning the terminals on
the battery, the other part for cleaning the inside of the cable
connections).

Boat batteries USUALLY have stainless steel screw threaded posts on the
batteries and smaller round connectors on the cables. The posts don't often
(ever?) need cleaning, but the cable connectors do need to be looked after.
You can easily clean them with a toothbrush-sized copper or brass wire brush
and/or sand paper. Regardless of car or boat, the idea is just to keep the
battery posts and cable connections bright metal. This also applies to all
electrical connections, but in my experience, the very first and most common
place for corrosion to affect starting is right at the battery - and it is
very easy and quick to cure and/or prevent.

I'd almost bet this will solve your problem.

Second issue, testing the battery: a boat/marine battery -whether it's deep
cycle or starting type - is essentially the same as a car battery. They're
just built a little different. Therefore anyplace that can test car
batteries can test a marine battery. A load test is the best thing to do if
it's an older battery that you're not totally sure of.

Finally, there are easy "temporary" and "permanent" ways to monitor your
alternator. You might want to have a volt meter permanently installed on
the dash board if you don't have one already. It's a pretty basic gauge as
you've found out. It will show you if the battery has a charge (if the
motor's not running) or if the alternator's working (if the motor's
running). As a temporary measure you can use a simple, cheap indicator tool
as someone else pointed out, or you can buy an cheap or expensive version of
a multi meter at any hardware store or Radio Shack. A very handy tool to
learn how to use, and pretty easy to do so.

Even if you're not enthusiastic about being a mechanic (like me - meaning
I'm a very reluctant mechanic since I have a very large learning curve and
often mess things up the first time), it's very handy to learn to do some of
these things because (1) you can waste a LOT of time waiting for a mechanic
to "get to it" and (2) a lot of times problems happen out on the water than
can be pretty easily solved if you have some rudimentary knowledge and
tools.

It sounds to me like you've demonstrated pretty good problem solving skills
(jumping it to raise the prop) I know it sounds strange, but some people
wouldn't have figured that out and would have just dragged the thing out of
the water and risked damaging it.

Hey good luck and enjoy that boat. It sounds like it will be a beauty and a
lot of fun.

Cam
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

"Ree-Yees" <ree-yees RemoveThis @allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:qVsmc.5051$ZN.3539@fe08.usenetserver.com...
 >
 > Will I be able to put a starter battery and this deepcycle battery in
there
 > with some kind of a switch and then switch to the deep cycle when the boat
 > is off?
 >
 > --C
 >

You didn't say the size of the boat but I'm assuming it's just a
day runabout / under 25 feet. In this case I suggest two "dual-
purpose" batteries. These batteries are good both for starting
the boat and for running small amounts of equipment for
relativley short periods of time. (Such as a couple of lights
and the radio while your setting still for an hour).

The "deep cell" will work for that too. But it's really more for
taking lots of charge and then running more load for more time.
(Like on a big boat that is setting with no engine running for
hours and running bigger/more electrical loads.)

The two dual-purpose gives you....well lets put it this way: One
dual-purpose would do you OK. It would be fine both for starting
the boat and for storing and delivering a charge for an hour or two
while you sat someplace. Having the second dual-purpose is
a backup.

Yes, then you get an A/B/Both/OFF switch. There are a few ways to
rig these up and a few ways to use them. The BASIC idea is that
you charge up both batteries while running the engine but then switch
to just one battery while setting still. That way if you accidentially
discharge the entire battery you can still switch to the other one to
restart the boat.

I also suggest carrying one of those portable battery things. Some of
them have a light, a 12 volt socket, maybe even a small inverter. But
the point is it gives you yet another source to use if the batteries go
dead to help start the boat.

As for hooking up the A/B switch, ask again when you get to that point
and you'll get lots of information about how to hook it up and what
equipment to use.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

Do this quick test...

1. Start up your boat.
2. Remove the negative lead off your battery.
3. If the motor shuts off, it's your alternator for sure.
4. Check all connections before removing the alternator.

Advanced Auto can test your alternator.

Jim Rojas


"Ree-Yees" <ree-yees.TakeThisOut@allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:jMqmc.14130$Gj.8766@fe27.usenetserver.com...
 > Hi all. I have an '87 sea ray seville. Yesterday put it in the water for
 > the second time this year. Cruised around for hours, lots of time also
just
 > sitting around with the boat still running. When I went back to the boat
 > ramp as I was waiting for others to finish putting their boats up I turned
 > it off. When I did this my electronics should have still stayed on
(radio,
 > depth finder) but all went off. I could not even raise my propeller.
 >
 > I hooked in a second batter with some jump cables and was able to raise my
 > propeller just fine.
 >
 > My guess is that my battery is dead and that I was running on alternator?
 >
 > I took the battery to advanced auto (only thing open at 9pm) and they said
 > the battery was fully charged and working! Obviously they must be wrong
or
 > their machine doesnt work correctly on boat batteries, even though they do
 > sell some in there.
 >
 > What type of place can test my boat battery and sells good boat batteries?
 > I hope thats what the problem is.
 >
 > Also, would it be possible for them to test the battery as good but for
some
 > reason it not work in the boat? Cause it starts right up when I jumped
it.
 >
 > Thanks!
 > --C
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

"Ree-Yees" <ree-yees DeleteThis @allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:jMqmc.14130$Gj.8766@fe27.usenetserver.com...


 > When I went back to the boat
 > ramp as I was waiting for others to finish putting their boats up I turned
 > it off. When I did this my electronics should have still stayed on
(radio,
 > depth finder) but all went off. I could not even raise my propeller.

Do you have a battery switch? This description sounds exactly like what I
would expect if the battery swtich had been turned to OFF. As long as the
engine was still running then the alternator provided the required current,
but as soon as the engine stops there isn't any more current.

Most boats have a big ON/OFF battery switch, or if they have dual batteries
they will have a A-BOTH-B-OFF switch. It is also fairly common for a boat
to have a "remote" battery switch that is operated by a small toggle switch
on the dash. The battery should NEVER be turned off while the engine is
running.


 >
 > I hooked in a second batter with some jump cables and was able to raise my
 > propeller just fine.

Did you clamp the jumper cables directly to the "dead" battery? If you did,
then that rules out the battery switch.

 > I took the battery to advanced auto (only thing open at 9pm) and they said
 > the battery was fully charged and working! Obviously they must be wrong
or
 > their machine doesnt work correctly on boat batteries, even though they do
 > sell some in there.

Their equipment would test a battery, it doesn't matter if it had recently
been installed in a boat, car, airplane, or whatever.

I would expect them to test the battery by putting it under a significant
load. The meter to do this usually has big clamps like a jumper cable that
connect up to a fairly good size meter. When they push the button it will
put like 100 amps on the battery and then they measure the voltage. If that
is what they did and it measured Ok then you can be assured that the battery
itself was not the problem.

The auto parts store would also be anxious to sell you a new battery, so
they sure wouldn't want to tell you that your battery was good if it wasn't.

 >
 > What type of place can test my boat battery and sells good boat batteries?
 > I hope thats what the problem is.

The definition of "good" is certainly subject of debate, but I would think
that your boat would be happy with just about any battery. If your boat has
the typical boat battery cables that connect to a 5/16" post with a wing nut
then you will need to get a "marine" battery. If your setup has the typical
battery post clamps then a common automotive battery would be fine, as long
as you don't "deep cycle" it. If you sit for long periods of time running
the stereo or run trolling motors or something then a deep cycle battery
would be best.

If it wasn't the battery switch being turned off then my best guess is that
the battery contacts were loose or corroded. Clean up the battery posts and
cable terminals with a stiff wire brush, then make sure the clamps/nuts are
tight. You should NOT be able to twist the cables on the post.

As others have suggested, it would be very helpful if you had an accurate
volt meter. You can purchase a fairly decent "multi-meter" at the hardware
store for around $20. In fact, here is one that will serve just fine and it
is only $2.99!
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30756" target="_blank">http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30756</a>

What you need is a volt meter that can show you the difference between 12.5
and 13.0 volts. The volt meter on your dash isn't good enough, you need
something that can show the difference of 0.1 volts.

To test to see if your alternator is working at all, measure the voltage at
the battery before you start. It should be around 12.5 volts if the battery
is fully charged. If the voltage is below 12 then the battery is fairly
discharged. If it is below 11.5 the battery is nearly dead.

Now start the engine, bring the RPM up to at least 1500 RPM. Measure the
voltage again. The voltage should now be at least 13.0 volts, and could be
as high as 14.2 volts. If it isn't at least 13 (or if the voltage actually
went down) then the alternator is not putting out anything at all.

Rod<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

What did the terminals look like (dirty?)
That sounds like the classic bad terminal problem. It could be a connection
inside the battery tho.
How old is the battery?
Another way to test it is to put it in your car and run it there for a few
days. Keep the "good" battery in the trunk so you don't get stranded somewhere.
Be sure to secure it so it won't be rolling around.
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

For less than the price of gas to run to the auto store, you can own an
inexpensive little test light that will help you determine if your battery
and/or alternator is goofed up.

They're small, and fit easily in a basic tool box. The test you can run with a
cheapie light is informative, but not complete. A battery can have a "surface
charge" that looks OK, but lack the guts to do any real work.

As somebody else suggested, check those terminals and cable clamps and see if
they got corroded by sitting all winter. The clamp from the jumper cable might
have had enough pressure to make contact through any corrosion, and the austo
parts store would have tested the battery with corrosion-free equipment.
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

 >I just got the boat a month or so ago and the guy said the battery was a
 >couple years old. I took it out and it is a deep cycle battery with 575CCA.
 >I was reading online and I guess this isnt even the right kind of battery to

If you're only going to hve one battery, it should be a deep cycle.

There is nothing wrong with starting a boat with a deep cycle battery, as long
as it has a sufficent cold crank rating to do the job. It doesn't hurt the
battery. There is a problem with using a starting battery for running a lot of
accessories with the engine off. The starting battery has thin plates that
break up more quickly during recharge.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

How many CCA do I need for a 19 foot sea ray with a 165hp Mercruiser engine?

The deep cycle that is good, bad, or needs charging is 575 CCA.

I guess I'll try to get one of those dual purpose starter/deep cycle
batteries on the way home since id like to have two anyways. I saw one with
650CCA and one with 750CCA.

--Cameron
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

How many CCA do I need on a battery for a boat my size?

I didnt think about the voltmeter on the dash but I could defintily install
one of those without much trouble. I have installed boot meters and
tachometers in cars before, not much difference.

--c

"Ree-Yees" <ree-yees RemoveThis @allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:bDvmc.1$5n3.0@fe12.usenetserver.com...
 > How many CCA do I need for a 19 foot sea ray with a 165hp Mercruiser
engine?
 >
 > The deep cycle that is good, bad, or needs charging is 575 CCA.
 >
 > I guess I'll try to get one of those dual purpose starter/deep cycle
 > batteries on the way home since id like to have two anyways. I saw one
with
 > 650CCA and one with 750CCA.
 >
 > --Cameron
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

"Ree-Yees" <ree-yees.RemoveThis@allaroundit.com> wrote in message
news:a4xmc.472$Ck1.92@fe17.usenetserver.com...
 > How many CCA do I need on a battery for a boat my size?
 >
I don't know the exact answer. But 575 should be enough.

Note you may also hear of Marine Cranking Amps or Warm Cranking Amps. These
two
terms are the same as each other. Like CCA they are a measure of how many
amps the
batter can deliver over a short period of time. Only difference is CCA is at
a cold temperature
(as might be found when starting your car) and MCA or WCA is at a higher
temperature
as is more usual with a boat. But CCA is still an easier standard to stick
to for deciding.



 > I didnt think about the voltmeter on the dash but I could defintily
install one...

Volt meter is a great tool. A Handheld one is hand in addition. You can use
the hand
held one AT the altenator to see what is it putting out. You can use it AT
the battery
when the engine is running to be sure it is getting a charging voltage (13.5
volts). And
you can use it to test wires and current anywhere.

Batteries, when charged, maintain a "surface charge" that slowly dissipates.
I think for
full disipation is something like 12 or 24 hours. But usualy if you charge a
batter and
then let it set for even an hour or two, you'll get a pretty close reading.

Here is one FAQ that talkes about Marine, Deep Cell, CCA, MCA, etc.
Google on "Battery FAQ" or "Car Battery FAQ" and you'll get tons
of good info:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.exide.co.nz/faqs/marine.htm" target="_blank">http://www.exide.co.nz/faqs/marine.htm</a>

Good Luck<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

Hi, I am contemplating whether to buy the Sun tracker Party boat with
a single axis trailer and an electric motor. Was wondering if anyone
has any experience with electric motors and the advantages. One of the
reasons I would like the electric motor is that a local Reservoir does
not allow gas motors because it is the city drinking water. But I also
want to use the boat at Texas Lakes, like Media and Canyon Lake.
I was given a Total price including ttl 2004 PB17 with trailer and
electric motor as $10,957.38. Does this seem like a reasonable deal
for this boat? Any help on the above questions will be appreciated.

http://suntrackerboats.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.boat&nav=16&boat=1229

Rod
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down? 

<beally.RemoveThis@nospam.satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:83sk905p55h6va4nk1ilmpl4rkrm9rmdj7@4ax.com...
 > Hi, I am contemplating whether to buy the Sun tracker Party boat with
 > a single axis trailer and an electric motor. Was wondering if anyone
 > has any experience with electric motors and the advantages. One of the
 > reasons I would like the electric motor is that a local Reservoir does
 > not allow gas motors because it is the city drinking water. But I also
 > want to use the boat at Texas Lakes, like Media and Canyon Lake.
 > I was given a Total price including ttl 2004 PB17 with trailer and
 > electric motor as $10,957.38. Does this seem like a reasonable deal
 > for this boat? Any help on the above questions will be appreciated.
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://suntrackerboats.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.boat&nav=16&boat=1229</font" target="_blank">http://suntrackerboats.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.boat&nav=16&boat=...9</f</a>>
 >
 > Rod

Rod,

You should probably repost this question in it's own thread so that more
people will see it and respond. Unfortunately I know very little about
pontoon boats or electric motors. One thing generally though:

-- Seems like you'll be buying this stuff new. If so, then the reputation
and
service you'll get from the dealer is key. Try to check around if you can
and see if the dealer stands by his products.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is it my battery or alternator that let me down?