WiFi again.

> > So what goes between the antenna and the Linksys box?

As little cable as possible.

> Use LMR-400 cable. Get Radiolabs to make you a custom cable up to 40'
> long.

Do not make this cable very long. DO NOT run it down an entire mast. The
dB loss will be greater than you want for WiFi. It's better to use an
enclosure that lets you keep the WiFi gear as close to the antenna as
possible. No, amplifiers will not work as effectively (at least not without
using VERY expensive ones).

-Bill Kearney
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

Bill Kearney wrote:
>>> So what goes between the antenna and the Linksys box?
>
> As little cable as possible.
>
>> Use LMR-400 cable. Get Radiolabs to make you a custom cable up to 40'
>> long.
>
> Do not make this cable very long. DO NOT run it down an entire mast. The
> dB loss will be greater than you want for WiFi. It's better to use an
> enclosure that lets you keep the WiFi gear as close to the antenna as
> possible. No, amplifiers will not work as effectively (at least not without
> using VERY expensive ones).

Neither one of these guys is completely right. Not yet. Look at the
specs here for the various LMR coaxial cables and decide which one best
meets your needs for your install:

http://timesmicrowave.com/content/pdf/lmr/184-185.pdf

I've used all LMR 100A, 200, 240, 300, and 400 in various combinations
and places and been happy with them all. Note that the names of the
various types of LMR coaxial cable is approximately the outside diameter
of the coax in hundredths of an inch (example, LMR-400 = .405" O.D.).

The most important factor can be the quality of the connectors and their
installation on the coax. The if the stripping and trimming is not done
right, connectors not fitted right carefully sealed, the signal losses
will increase remarkably.

Having the cable made is a good idea if you don't have the tools to do
it yourself.

I've done numerous 802.11B/G with coax runs of 50-100 feet of LMR-400
and added another 5 to 30 feet of LMR-200 or 240 to that to get through
walls, floors, and have some flexibility at the back of a PC.

There is one error in the brochure above, the minimum bending radius for
LMR-240 should read .75 feet (a 9 inch radius bend), not .75" (inches)
as listed.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

Larry Wrote:
> capt.bill11 capt.bill11.2kzqqj RemoveThis @news.boatbanter.com wrote in
> news:capt.bill11.2kzqqj@news.boatbanter.com:
> -
> So what goes between the antenna and the Linksys box?
>
> -
>
> Use LMR-400 cable. Get Radiolabs to make you a custom cable up to 40
>
> long.
> http://www.radiolabs.com/products/cables/cable.php
> The connectors for the various Linksys products are shown on their
> webpages. Make sure you leave an extra foot on both ends so you're no
>
> sorry!
>
> No, RG-58 left over from your VHF radio pullout won't work on 2400 Mhz
>
> Put that out of your mind....
>
>
> Larry
> --
> Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner.
> Liberty is when the sheep has his own gun.


Thanks Larry.

But the antenna came with the correct end fitting to hook to th
Linksys box. But what I'm not sure about is whether by just hookin
the WiFi antenna to one of the two antenna posts on the Linksys box
should then start picking up local WiFi sites?

Or do I need something that the antenna plugs into first then tha
"box" gets plugged into the eithernet in port on the Linksys box?

Because right now the WiFi antenna is hooked to the and we are in sigh
of a local hot spot but can not get to the internet via the Linksy
box.
But we can if we sit on deck with just the WiFi cards in the laptops.
For what it's worth it's a WRT54GS Linksys box.

"No, RG-58 left over from your VHF radio pullout won't work on 240
Mhz.
Put that out of your mind...."

It never was. :-


--
capt.bill11
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

capt.bill11 wrote:

> Larry Wrote:
>
>>capt.bill11 capt.bill11.2kzqqj.RemoveThis@news.boatbanter.com wrote in
>>news:capt.bill11.2kzqqj@news.boatbanter.com:
>>-
>>So what goes between the antenna and the Linksys box?
>>
>>-
>>
>>Use LMR-400 cable. Get Radiolabs to make you a custom cable up to 40'
>>
>>long.
>>http://www.radiolabs.com/products/cables/cable.php
>>The connectors for the various Linksys products are shown on their
>>webpages. Make sure you leave an extra foot on both ends so you're not
>>
>>sorry!
>>
>>No, RG-58 left over from your VHF radio pullout won't work on 2400 Mhz.
>>
>>Put that out of your mind....
>>
>>
>>Larry
>>--
>>Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner.
>>Liberty is when the sheep has his own gun.
>
>
>
> Thanks Larry.
>
> But the antenna came with the correct end fitting to hook to the
> Linksys box. But what I'm not sure about is whether by just hooking
> the WiFi antenna to one of the two antenna posts on the Linksys box I
> should then start picking up local WiFi sites?

Is there a piece of cable in between the connectors?

Do you have coax needed for the run or are you just trying to test it?

At any rate, you need to configure the Linksys box a little. Use a
network cable and connect you PC's network connector to one of the
network ports (not the WLAN or Wideband connector) on the Linksys
whatever it is.

Start a browser and enter address http://192.168.1.1/ (or maybe
http://192.168.100.1/, it should be in your manual).

Then leave the user name blank and enter the password "admin" (lower
case, leave the quote marks off).

That should take you to Setup on the Linksys. Somewhere in there will
be an option to use either one or both of the antennas. It may be under
Advanced > Wireless > Antenna Selection. You need to tell it which
antenna (right or left) you want to use and save that setting.

I recommend you leave the the standard "rubber ducky" antenna on the
connector you do not turn on. That will keep that side from "running
open" if the whatever it is resets itself to defaults.

If the new antenna is far enough away from the rubber ducky you may
later even find having both antennas on useful. It might be that it
will work better inside the boat or in one area of the boat or another.
On the other hand, it may do some strange things at the antenna.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

Um... I think something is missing here....

The OP has a combination Router / Access point (WRT54GS). Good box,
but it is designed to broadcast a wire based Internet connection INTO
WiFi. And I think the OP is trying to use it to access an existing
remote WiFi...

If this is true, the short answer is: You got the wrong box. You
need something that will act as a 'WiFi receiver' or Wireless Client
(WET54G, or the Dlink DWL2100Ap running in Client Mode).

Put your antenna on one of these and it will 'receive' the remote WiFi
and present it on an Ethernet cable. You can then plug this into the
Ethernet port on your laptop and get longer range then using the built
in WiFi card.

Once you have established connection to a remote WiFi, it is possible
to plug this into the WAN port on your WRT54GS and then have in effect
a WiFi 'repeater' on your boat. You can then have your laptop just
connect over YOUR WiFi network you have set up using the WRT54GS.

I have used this setup a few times on Viking Star, but once it is all
set up and attached to a remote WiFi, I have not found a way to get
back into the Wireless Client (I am using a DWL2100AP) without
disconnecting the Ethernet cable from the WRT54GS and plugging it back
into the Laptop. One needs to do this in order to be able to select
which remote WiFi network to have the Wireless Client connect to.
However, once it is configured and working, it is really nice to have
a reliable WiFi based network on your own boat

I hope this helps.

-al-






On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:36:55 +0000, capt.bill11
<capt.bill11.2kzqqj.TakeThisOut@news.boatbanter.com> wrote:

>
>OK, got the external WiFi antenna. Now I want to hook it into the
>Linksys wireless box we have on the boat now.
>
>So what goes between the antenna and the Linksys box?
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

capt.bill11 Wrote:
> Thanks Larry.
>
> But the antenna came with the correct end fitting to hook to the
> Linksys box. But what I'm not sure about is whether by just hooking
> the WiFi antenna to one of the two antenna posts on the Linksys box I
> should then start picking up local WiFi sites?
>
> Or do I need something that the antenna plugs into first then that
> "box" gets plugged into the eithernet in port on the Linksys box?
>
> Because right now the WiFi antenna is hooked to the and we are in sight
> of a local hot spot but can not get to the internet via the Linksys
> box.
> But we can if we sit on deck with just the WiFi cards in the laptops.
> For what it's worth it's a WRT54GS Linksys box.
>
> "No, RG-58 left over from your VHF radio pullout won't work on 2400
> Mhz.
> Put that out of your mind...."
>
> It never was.


You might look at the specs for the Linksys box as the ads say it's a
router - Access Point for WIFI. You're trying to connect one AP to
another and they won't do it unless one changes personality. You really
want a WET 54G to connect to the marina AP.




--
Cowelld
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

> If this is true, the short answer is: You got the wrong box.

No, if he's got a WRT54GS he can load the dd-wrt firmware on it and use it
as a client just fine. I know, that's exactly what I've got in my boat.

> Once you have established connection to a remote WiFi, it is possible
> to plug this into the WAN port on your WRT54GS and then have in effect
> a WiFi 'repeater' on your boat. You can then have your laptop just
> connect over YOUR WiFi network you have set up using the WRT54GS.

Yes, if you want to have both a link to shore and a wifi network wirelessly
on the boat you'll definitely need two boxes. One can't act as both. One
can "supposedly" use some wifi devices as bridges or repeaters but that cuts
the bandwidth in half (can't do both at once) and in my experience it's
generally unreliable.

> I have used this setup a few times on Viking Star, but once it is all
> set up and attached to a remote WiFi, I have not found a way to get
> back into the Wireless Client (I am using a DWL2100AP) without
> disconnecting the Ethernet cable from the WRT54GS and plugging it back
> into the Laptop. One needs to do this in order to be able to select
> which remote WiFi network to have the Wireless Client connect to.
> However, once it is configured and working, it is really nice to have
> a reliable WiFi based network on your own boat

I do it all the time without disconnecting anything. The on-boat network is
always on the same wifi SSID; conveniently called "boat" on our vessel. So
the laptops aboard always stay connected to the same network. I just surf
to the shore-link device, also always on a fixed IP address as part of the
"boat" network, and use that to pick an on-shore SSID. Works well.

-Bill Kearney
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

> You might look at the specs for the Linksys box as the ads say it's a
> router - Access Point for WIFI. You're trying to connect one AP to
> another and they won't do it unless one changes personality. You really
> want a WET 54G to connect to the marina AP.

You can load the dd-wrt firmware on it and use it for quite a bit more than
what the factory firmware offers.
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:40:34 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
<wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote:

>> If this is true, the short answer is: You got the wrong box.
>
>No, if he's got a WRT54GS he can load the dd-wrt firmware on it and use it
>as a client just fine. I know, that's exactly what I've got in my boat.
>
Yes, noticed he had the GS version (though I understand there is now
workarounds for almost all version of the WRT54G, even the latest
one). But I think for most people purchasing a device already
configures for use as a Wireless Client is more straight forward then
reflashing. In any case, he will need to get two boxes, right? But
you are right, he could purchase either another WRT54GS and re-flash
the open firmware, or just purchase a Wireless Client.


>> I have used this setup a few times on Viking Star, but once it is all
>> set up and attached to a remote WiFi, I have not found a way to get
>> back into the Wireless Client (I am using a DWL2100AP) without
>> disconnecting the Ethernet cable from the WRT54GS and plugging it back
>> into the Laptop.

>I do it all the time without disconnecting anything. The on-boat network is
>always on the same wifi SSID; conveniently called "boat" on our vessel. So
>the laptops aboard always stay connected to the same network. I just surf
>to the shore-link device, also always on a fixed IP address as part of the
>"boat" network, and use that to pick an on-shore SSID. Works well.
>

Do you give your shore-link / wireless client device an fixed IP
address within your 'boats' IP range? That is what I am doing and
works great. Can talk to the DWL2100AP no problem. Search for a
network and select it as appropriate. But what I have found is that
once I connect to a shore based station, unless that station happens
to use the same IP range as the IP address assigned to my shore-link
device I can no longer access it. If the shore based IP range is
within the fixed IP address of my shore-link box, then I can continue
to reach it no problem.... Are you able to continue to communicate
with your shore-link no matter what the shore base station uses for
its IP ranges?


This is an area where my knowledge runs out

-al-
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

Al Thomason wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:40:34 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
> <wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote:
>
>>> If this is true, the short answer is: You got the wrong box.
>> No, if he's got a WRT54GS he can load the dd-wrt firmware on it and use it
>> as a client just fine. I know, that's exactly what I've got in my boat.
>>
> Yes, noticed he had the GS version (though I understand there is now
> workarounds for almost all version of the WRT54G, even the latest
> one). But I think for most people purchasing a device already
> configures for use as a Wireless Client is more straight forward then
> reflashing. In any case, he will need to get two boxes, right? But
> you are right, he could purchase either another WRT54GS and re-flash
> the open firmware, or just purchase a Wireless Client.

I think you need to have the version 4.x or earlier WRT-54 models to re
flash the firmware and one of the third party firmwares. The newest
version 5.0 and up models have less RAM and flash memory and can't
support the linux based re flashes. More details here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRT54G

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA (jackerbes at adelphia dot net)
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine dot com)
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

> In any case, he will need to get two boxes, right?

Yes, two boxes. One to make the link to the shore and the other to provide
an on-boat wireless network. You could get away with just one making the
shore connection. But then you'd have to use a wired connection to any
other computers onboard. Which you could do, as I've done, by running a
single ethernet wire down from the shore-link router to a wired switch.
Then connect your computer(s) there. I found it was better to have wireless
to avoid the tripping hazards cables pose.

> Do you give your shore-link / wireless client device an fixed IP
> address within your 'boats' IP range?

Yes. On the boat I use a 172.16.x.x/255.255.0.0 range of addresses. This
helps avoid conflicts with anything on shore using a
192.168.x.x/255.255.255.0 range. The access point on the boat uses
172.16.x.2 and the shore-link router in the radar arch uses 172.16.x.1. So
I just keep a web browser bookmark setup for http://172.16.x.1 and use that
to configure the router when we get anchored. It's worked really well.

And when I mention 172.16.x.x the 'x' is a number from 1 to 255. I simply x
out the ones I use for the sake of, well, privacy. That and should someone
else happen to get networked along with me somewhere on the Chesapeake it
cuts down on the likely conflict. You could just as well use 172.16.1.x,
172.16.88.x or anything else up to 255.

172.16.x.x using a Class B subnet of 255.255.0.0 is one of the private
network numbers that can be used for devices that are not directly connected
to the Internet. The 192.168.x.x Class C 255.255.255.0 is another one.
(note the difference in subnet masks) You can use either. Most folks don't
know about private addressing so get stuck with just the 192.168.x.x
numbering. But know this, you SHOULD NOT just make up numbering. Always
use the legitimate private network numbers. Otherwise you'd be screwed
if/when you actually need to route to something on the same addressing as
something you've 'made up'.

> Are you able to continue to communicate
> with your shore-link no matter what the shore base station uses for
> its IP ranges?

Yes, routing is such that a local network is going to get priority anyway.
But since I use the 172.16.x.x range of private addresses the chances of
conflict are really quite low. Even if the shore network was on the same
range it's my on-boat network that's handling the packets first. I have the
shore-link router acting as a client but also running DHCP services. The
on-boat router runs nothing, it's just an access point. The ethernet wire
goes between the LAN side of each router. The WAN ports on both of them are
unused. I actually run my gear all into one ethernet switch. That's also
where my Raymarine E-80 is networked along with the SR1000 Sirius marine
weather unit. It's all worked quite nicely this past summer.

-Bill Kearney
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

> I think you need to have the version 4.x or earlier WRT-54 models to re
> flash the firmware and one of the third party firmwares. The newest
> version 5.0 and up models have less RAM and flash memory and can't
> support the linux based re flashes.

Generally, yes, it's better to have the 4.0 and earlier hardware versions.
Or get one of the new ones specifically noted as WRT54GL with L indicating
Linux. You can use a 'micro' version of the firmware on the new version 5
and later boxes. And for a simple shore-link and access point setup that's
actually sufficient.

I scoured fleabay for a couple of weeks and picked up several 4.0 and
earlier units just so I'd have spares.

Then there's also the new units from Buffalo. Check the
http://www.dd-wrt.com website to find out which models are supported.

-Bill Kearney
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again. 

capt.bill11 <capt.bill11.2l14qi.TakeThisOut@news.boatbanter.com> wrote in
news:capt.bill11.2l14qi@news.boatbanter.com:

> But the antenna came with the correct end fitting to hook to the
> Linksys box. But what I'm not sure about is whether by just hooking
> the WiFi antenna to one of the two antenna posts on the Linksys box I
> should then start picking up local WiFi sites?

Whoa! This is a broadband ROUTER, not a BRIDGE or GATEWAY or REPEATER
(keywords). It's made to be the SOURCE of wifi broadband, connected to a
cable modem or DSL modem via Ethernet....NOT a wifi listening device, a
receiver connectable to other wifi systems.

The two antennas are called "space diversity antennas". They both
transceive the same signals and listen to the same channels. A "voter"
in the box determines which antenna has the best signal from your wifi
laptop/PDA/Skype Phone and uses that antenna. (My Netgear has 7 antennas
built into its internal phased array panel.)

You can't connect a wifi router to a wifi access point, then repeat what
it says to another wifi box like a laptop. The data flow is from the
Ethernet WAN port. It has no way to connect to a wifi hotspot.

I'm using a Linksys "Range Expander" in my car:
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%
2FLayout&cid=1130267578138&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
This box IS a wifi repeater station. You put it on the edge of usable
wifi coverage from a wifi hotspot and it REPEATS the hotspot data, bi-
directionally, with wifi devices (laptop and Skype Phone here) that would
normally be out-of-range of that hotspot. At my local Denny's, there's
an unprotected linksys wifi router that has a lousy signal INSIDE the
metal old-fashioned diner style restaurant (Nothing at Denny's is DINER
PRICED, however, another matter.) So, when I carry my laptop or Skype
Phone into Denny's for breakfast, I plug this 110VAC repeater into a 75W
inverter-in-a-cigarette-lighter-plug, into the 12V port on my dash. The
AC line runs out the door seal to the Linksys repeater laying flat on the
roof with its little plastic antenna sticking up (it rotates). Signal
from the weak hotspot INSIDE Denny's goes from 1 bar to 4 bars out of 5
on the little Netgear Skype Phone, and I have solid phone service at
breakfast through it.

Repeating DOES have a drawback! If you add the time it takes to receive
data, store it, then transmit it back out to another wifi device, that
takes TWICE as long as connecting directly....for boxes like mine. Data
comes in half as fast as it did directly, but with a much better signal
that doesn't fade and dropout. For just browsing, Skyping, all but
downloading big files, it matters not but is something to think about.

Now....to get faster service....you need to buy a high powered Access
Point and run Ethernet from the access point up the mast to the computer
in the boat. That means the AP needs to be up the mast, powered by one
cable and Ethernet cable comes down the mast, not RF coax cable. If you
put another router on the other end of that Ethernet cable, you end up
with the problem of the second router inside the boat, which wirelessly
would connect to your laptop, INTERFERING with the receiver up the mast
talking to the hotspot....slowing us down to repeater speed, or worse as
it's not synchronized if the hotspot can't hear your laptop direct to
avoid crashing the signals simultaneously transmitting. RF on the air
ISN'T clairvoyant or magic...it's ANALOG.

>
> Or do I need something that the antenna plugs into first then that
> "box" gets plugged into the eithernet in port on the Linksys box?

That box won't work to connect to the hotspot. You need an ACCESS POINT
up the mast that REPLACES the wireless transceiver inside your laptop.
You connect the mast-topped AP to the computer via Ethernet wires.

These access points look like:
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%
2FLayout&cid=1133201998719&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
Now, THIS product solves running TWO wires up the mast because it adds
the DC power to run the AP at the remote location (mast top) to the
Ethernet data on the Ethernet cable. At the computer end of the wire,
there is an interface box that you plug AC or DC power into and run the
Ethernet connections through it where it adds DC power without screwing
the data. Notice all access points have WAP in their Linksys model
numbers.


>
> Because right now the WiFi antenna is hooked to the and we are in sight
> of a local hot spot but can not get to the internet via the Linksys
> box.
> But we can if we sit on deck with just the WiFi cards in the laptops.
> For what it's worth it's a WRT54GS Linksys box.
>
>

This is because the WR (wireless router) has no facility to connect to
another wireless access point. It is not an access point, itself. You
got the wrong box....WAP54GPE or my little wireless repeater box is the
box you need. Sorry....

Larry
--
Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner.
Liberty is when the sheep has his own gun.
 >> Stay informed about: WiFi again.