Watson Canoes?

Michael Daly wrote:
 >
 > I have no experience with Watson, but a 58lb fiberglass canoe in a hand layup
 > at C$800 sounds like a poor quality canoe. There's no way that you can get
 > an efficient hand layup in that price range (compared to vacuum bagging),
 > so its weight must mean a light layup. Besides, anyone that calls a canoe
 > with a plumb stem a Prospector can't possibly know anything useful about
 > canoes.
 >
 > Swift makes good canoes and you'd be better off with a used Swift than
 > an unknown.
 >
 > Mike

Fair enough...

So, it seems that I would be looking at either an Algonquin 15 or 16, or
perhaps a Mattawa, if I were to get a Swift. The Mattawa looks to be a
better canoe, I will have to try one.

They will be in Guelph, Ontario next weekend, which is about 1 hours
drive from where I am.

Any comments on either of the above?

Thanks
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

On 18-Apr-2004, John Smith wrote:

 > So, it seems that I would be looking at either an Algonquin 15 or 16, or
 > perhaps a Mattawa, if I were to get a Swift. The Mattawa looks to be a
 > better canoe, I will have to try one.

I haven't paddled a Mattawa, but I did paddle an Algonquin 17 for a weekend
once. I didn't realize that the A-17 was not considered a "serious" canoe -
its marketed as a high-end family or good recreational canoe. I found it
handled quite well and had decent speed. I would have rated as good or
better than many other companies' high-end tripper canoes!

I can't say much about the 15 or 16 foot versions other than to suggest that
if they're comparable to the 17, they're good enough for most paddlers.

If I had to buy a lake tripper tomorrow, I'd get the Swift Kippawa. If
there's one available, give it a look.

 > They will be in Guelph, Ontario next weekend, which is about 1 hours
 > drive from where I am.

I bought my last boat - a Boreal Designs Ellesmere sea kayak from Swift
at Guelph two years ago. If you're lucky, you;ll find a deal like I did.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

Michael Daly wrote:


 > I haven't paddled a Mattawa, but I did paddle an Algonquin 17 for a weekend
 > once. I didn't realize that the A-17 was not considered a "serious" canoe -
 > its marketed as a high-end family or good recreational canoe. I found it
 > handled quite well and had decent speed. I would have rated as good or
 > better than many other companies' high-end tripper canoes!
 >
 > I can't say much about the 15 or 16 foot versions other than to suggest that
 > if they're comparable to the 17, they're good enough for most paddlers.
 >
 > If I had to buy a lake tripper tomorrow, I'd get the Swift Kippawa. If
 > there's one available, give it a look.
 >
 >
 > I bought my last boat - a Boreal Designs Ellesmere sea kayak from Swift
 > at Guelph two years ago. If you're lucky, you;ll find a deal like I did.
 >
 > Mike

Thanks again. I've been trying to keep it to 15' or 16'. While the
wife enjoys canoeing, I do see myself going solo from time to time (or
maybe more). To be honest, I haven't done extensive solo in any canoe
recently, but I figure that a 17' (or more) may be a handful at time, at
least more so than a shorter canoe.

I could be way off on that last point.

I'll be doing lake paddling most of the time, doing rivers/creeks to get
to the next lake, but I don't see any whitewater in the foreseeable future.

We do camping, but have found we can fit all our gear into a 15'
comfortably.

I will be fishing extensively from this canoe.

My main canoeing experience from the past few years is using three
different canoes.

One is at the wife's family cottage. This is a green plastic 17'
Coleman with round metal tubes bracing the inside. I find it heavy and
the most difficult to paddle. I took it out two weekends ago for my
first paddle (only choice). I find it generally barge-like.

The other two are at my cousins cottage, which we frequently visit in
the summer. They have a 16 or 17', not sure of the material. It's red
and plasticy, sort of like the Coleman, but stiffer, with no metal
bracing. It's lighter than the Coleman, and seems fairly durable. It
may be Royalex/lite, I've never seen one up close, so I'm not sure
exactly what they look like. Anyways, this is a stable canoe, it seems
OK, but it's still quite heavy.

The last is a Swift, approximately 10 years old. it's a 15', not sure
which model. I'm not exactly sure of the material, but the inside is a
screen-like mesh pattern. It seems very light, although it doesn't seem
like it would appreciate being banged into a rock. This canoe has no
keel, so when I first used it, I thought it felt 'tippy'. After awhile,
I got used to it and find the canoe much more stable than the red one,
especially when you lean over the side, say, to unhook a fish! I guess
that's the Primary/Secondary stability.

Anyways, sorry to ramble, just looking for some input on what may be
suitable for me...

Thanks

Brian
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

On 19-Apr-2004, John Smith wrote:

BTW, I should admit that I haven't canoed in years, since sea kayaking has
taken over. I don't miss canoeing much - or at least, I don't miss the
idiot in the front seat . The only thing I miss while sea kayaking
is the ease of portaging my way away from the crowds (and power boats).

 > To be honest, I haven't done extensive solo in any canoe
 > recently, but I figure that a 17' (or more) may be a handful at time, at
 > least more so than a shorter canoe.

It can depend on the canoe. I did a lot of solo paddling in the old days
and found that a good 17' canoe is easier to handle than a poor 15-16'.
If you are talking about a solo canoe (i.e. single seat like the Osprey)
then 15-16' is standard. But for a double, even 17 is not too much
to handle solo if well designed.

 > It seems very light, although it doesn't seem
 > like it would appreciate being banged into a rock.

If Kevlar, it can be quite tough even though light.

 > This canoe has no keel,

Keels affect tracking, not stability. Many canoes get their tracking
stiffness from the bow and stern shape, so the keel is not critical.
The advantage of this design is that they track well but still turn
easily.

 > so when I first used it, I thought it felt 'tippy'. After awhile,
 > I got used to it and find the canoe much more stable than the red one,
 > especially when you lean over the side, say, to unhook a fish! I guess
 > that's the Primary/Secondary stability.

Correct. Good secondary is more important than high primary.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

Michael Daly wrote:



 > It can depend on the canoe. I did a lot of solo paddling in the old days
 > and found that a good 17' canoe is easier to handle than a poor 15-16'.
 > If you are talking about a solo canoe (i.e. single seat like the Osprey)
 > then 15-16' is standard. But for a double, even 17 is not too much
 > to handle solo if well designed.
 >

OK, so my selections have now expanded to most of the line. Algonquin,
Kipawa, Mattawa or maybe a Dumoine.

I guess at this point I'm just going to have to head out on Saturday and
paddle some of these things. Man I'm rusty...

With the asymmetrical canoes, when you paddle them solo, do you still
spin the canoe around and sit in the bow seat? Or am I missing the point
of a kneeling thwart?

Anyways, thanks for all your help. I guess it will probably boil down
to $$, from what I've read, it doesn't seem I'll go too far wrong with
any of these.

Are there good deals at the sales? Here's to hoping I can get into
something in Kevlar!

Thanks again

Brian
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

I've just purchased a 16' Prospector. I've also been to their factory and
spoken with Mark Watson.

I researched the market fairly extensively before making a decision and
since my requirement is mainly recreational I was not prepared to pay the
prices quoted by Swift, Scott, Evergreen, Old Town etc. etc. I have looked
at used Swifts in the past and have been frankly disappointed at what they
have offered. The cost savings do not seem much considering the beaten up
nature of most of the boats.

Watson boats are hand laid up and seem well generally well constructed. They
have a few canoes on sale and you might (like me) find a Prospector at about
CAD $100 off. The current book prices are $799 for the Prospector single
keel and $689 for the triple keel. Without doubt part of the reason for
their low prices is their overhead. Their premises are small and very
modest. However, they have been in the business for over 30 years and seem
to enjoy a fairly good reputation locally at least.

Regards,

Roy

I'm in the market for a new/used canoe. I've been paddling increasingly
 > over the past couple years and would like to get one for this year.
 >
 > I'm not looking at spending alot of money initially, and I will be
 > renting the canoes before I actually buy one. I'll be heading up to
 > Swift in Muskoka over the next week to see what they have. Budget is
 > realistically around $1000 (Canadian), so that pretty much means
 > used/demo/rental from Swift.
 >
 > I just found Watson canoes (www.watsoncanoes.com), and seeing as they
 > are about 20 minutes from here, I was going to go check them out. They
 > say the boats are hand-laid fiberglass, and the 16' Prospector is 58lbs,
 > which seems manageable.
 >
 > Anyone know anything about these guys?
 >
 > Any assistance appreciated,
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > Brian
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

CORRECTION: The name of the Watson 16' boats is "Voyageur" -not
"Prospector".

I've just finished reading "Fire in the Bones" and have "Prospector" on the
brain

Apologies,

Roy

"araby" wrote in message

 > I've just purchased a 16' Prospector. I've also been to their factory and
 > spoken with Mark Watson.
 >
 > I researched the market fairly extensively before making a decision and
 > since my requirement is mainly recreational I was not prepared to pay the
 > prices quoted by Swift, Scott, Evergreen, Old Town etc. etc. I have looked
 > at used Swifts in the past and have been frankly disappointed at what they
 > have offered. The cost savings do not seem much considering the beaten up
 > nature of most of the boats.
 >
 > Watson boats are hand laid up and seem well generally well constructed.
They
 > have a few canoes on sale and you might (like me) find a Prospector at
about
 > CAD $100 off. The current book prices are $799 for the Prospector single
 > keel and $689 for the triple keel. Without doubt part of the reason for
 > their low prices is their overhead. Their premises are small and very
 > modest. However, they have been in the business for over 30 years and seem
 > to enjoy a fairly good reputation locally at least.
 >
 > Regards,
 >
 > Roy
 >
 > I'm in the market for a new/used canoe. I've been paddling increasingly
  > > over the past couple years and would like to get one for this year.
  > >
  > > I'm not looking at spending alot of money initially, and I will be
  > > renting the canoes before I actually buy one. I'll be heading up to
  > > Swift in Muskoka over the next week to see what they have. Budget is
  > > realistically around $1000 (Canadian), so that pretty much means
  > > used/demo/rental from Swift.
  > >
  > > I just found Watson canoes (www.watsoncanoes.com), and seeing as they
  > > are about 20 minutes from here, I was going to go check them out. They
  > > say the boats are hand-laid fiberglass, and the 16' Prospector is 58lbs,
  > > which seems manageable.
  > >
  > > Anyone know anything about these guys?
  > >
  > > Any assistance appreciated,
  > >
  > > Thanks
  > >
  > > Brian
  > >
 >
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

Hello everyone. So lets talk canoes and see who knows what and who is just blowing hot air...First off I Mark Watson (WATSON CANOES) have been manufacturing canoes for more then 15 years. I won't say that I know it all but i can say I know a fair bit. I've read this post and am amazed that some people can give advice on things they know nothing about (Mike D). Swift canoes are one of the canoes on the market. they are very well build and are always on the cutting edge of technology. How do I know this hhmmm I'm good friends with Mr.Swift..I would always recommend them to anyone looking for a high end canoe. As for my canoes one of the best affordable family canoes around. (just ask mr.swift) I pride myself on giving you (the customer) the best bang for the buck. As for the weight lets just say i have the hand layup process down pat. If you would like to try out one of my canoes for yourself head down to harbor front canoe and kayak they have about 25 of my 16' excursion that they use on Lake Ontario to teach canoeing. (ask for Dave). If anyone has any questions about canoes feel free to drop me a line. watsoncanoes.DeleteThis@live.ca Mark
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

Michael Daly wrote:

On 18-Apr-2004, John Smith <coppertop1973.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote: Hello everyone. So lets talk canoes and see who knows what and who is just blowing hot air...First off I Mark Watson (WATSON CANOES) have been manufacturing canoes for more then 15 years. I won't say that I know it all but i can say I know a fair bit. I've read this post and am amazed that some people can give advice on things they know nothing about (Mike D). Swift canoes are one of the canoes on the market. they are very well build and are always on the cutting edge of technology. How do I know this hhmmm I'm good friends with Mr.Swift..I would always recommend them to anyone looking for a high end canoe. As for my canoes one of the best affordable family canoes around. (just ask mr.swift) I pride myself on giving you (the customer) the best bang for the buck. As for the weight lets just say i have the hand layup process down pat. If you would like to try out one of my canoes for yourself head down to harbor front canoe and kayak they have about 25 of my 16' excursion that they use on Lake Ontario to teach canoeing. (ask for Dave). If anyone has any questions about canoes feel free to drop me a line. watsoncanoes.RemoveThis@live.ca Mark > I just found Watson canoes (www.watsoncanoes.com), and seeing as they > are about 20 minutes from here, I was going to go check them out. They > say the boats are hand-laid fiberglass, and the 16' Prospector is 58lbs, > which seems manageable. I have no experience with Watson, but a 58lb fiberglass canoe in a hand layup at C$800 sounds like a poor quality canoe. There's no way that you can get an efficient hand layup in that price range (compared to vacuum bagging), so its weight must mean a light layup. Besides, anyone that calls a canoe with a plumb stem a Prospector can't possibly know anything useful about canoes. Swift makes good canoes and you'd be better off with a used Swift than an unknown. Mike

 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes? 

I bought a Watson canoe in 1990, and it is the only canoe I have ever owned. I've used it for all my canoe trips and recreational paddling in the last 21 years in Ottawa, Ontario. It is a 16-foot flatwater fibreglass canoe with plain aluminum gunwales, no rocker, and 3 keels.

I was once on a canoe trip in Algonquin Park with 2 other park rental canoes, and my Watson canoe was much faster than those rentals (not surprising really). My partner had never paddled a canoe before, and we spent a lot of time waiting for the rental canoes to catch up to our Watson canoe.

In Ottawa there are some fairly big haystacks in the rapids at the Champlain Bridge (Island Park Drive) where the whitewater enthusiasts bring their kayaks and Royalex Prospector canoes. My Watson canoe has spent many hours ferrying across those haystacks (trying to surf) and doing eddy turns into them -- yes you can successfully complete a nice neck-wrenching 180 degree eddy turn with a 3-keel no-rocker Watson fibreglass canoe (some of the time anyways).

Before the two children, my wife and I made quite a few 7-11 day canoe trips in the western side of Temagami, all in the Watson canoe. I have fallen with it on slippery rocks in the rain while portaging, walked straight into a tree with it while portaging it by myself, and had other minor mishaps that can all be easily fixed with some West System epoxy and 6 oz fibreglass E-cloth -- it helps if you've built a windsurfer first to get some practice before you work on something important like a canoe.

One of the best things I did to the canoe was to put "skid plates" on the ends. The skid plates are just 2 or 3 layers of fibreglass cloth with West System epoxy. The epoxy resin is much more durable than the "-ester" type resins that canoes are made of. By using plain cloth instead of Kevlar felt you can't even really see the skid plates, and they are lighter and don't produce as much drag. Basically the skid plates are sacrificial fibreglass that you replace after you wear them off before you start wearing out the actual hull. I haven't had to replace my skid plates yet, but I very rarely drive the canoe up on the shore when I'm getting in and out -- nylon hiking boots and wool socks keep your feet warm when they are wet.

Anyhow, you can do a lot worse than buy a Watson canoe if you ask me. I bought it because I couldn't afford anything better at the time. If it wasn't for Watson Canoes, I probably wouldn't have owned a canoe. Thanks to that canoe, I have many fond memories of canoeing and canoe trips (and fixing my canoe). This is one case where I didn't regret buying something "cheap".

Canoes are a bit like violins and golf clubs. The most important factor is the skill and knowledge of the person who is using the equipment. The best violinist or golfer in the world will do a lot better with my cheap low-end equipment than I will do with their expensive high-end equipment.
 >> Stay informed about: Watson Canoes?