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E-Techs in the 50-hp range

 
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RG2

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Since: Oct 04, 2003
Posts: 65



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:22 pm
Post subject: E-Techs in the 50-hp range
Archived from groups: rec>boats (more info?)

Anyone know how many Johnson E-Techs are out there and how have they faired
so far?

I'm a week or so away from purchasing a 50 hp and hate the idea of being the
first with new technology.
Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
RichG

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Billgran

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Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 200



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"RG" <rgross5 RemoveThis @housXXton.rr.com> wrote in message
news:H2YEb.72824$HH.8803@fe1.texas.rr.com...
 > Anyone know how many Johnson E-Techs are out there and how have they
faired
 > so far?
 >
 > I'm a week or so away from purchasing a 50 hp and hate the idea of being
the
 > first with new technology.
 >


The E-TEC's are out and running in the warmer climates. The boating media
has tested them for the last several months and reports will be published in
the next few issues. The following is from a person named Tony from
Australia who is getting his propped and set up correctly.

What size and make boat are you hoping to put the E-TEC on? I may be able to
post some performance results on similar rigs.

Bill Grannis
service manager
-------------------------------------

12-9-03

Bill,

My boat is a aluminium hull, Hull is 350 Kilograms plus one cranking
battery,2 troll motor batteries,troll motor and all the normal fishing gear.
Then the 138 Kilo's of the 75 E-tec.

You could call my hull a V-flared hull as it is ,very popular in Australia.
Glass hulls are just starting to make a entry into our market but very
slowly.
Any info you have would be interesting to read.
Thanks for your help.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
12-18-03

Today was it's maiden run, Beautiful day smooth water with just a little
breeze.

First thing I noticed was how dam quite the motor's idle and run. I could
not hear the motor from the bow of the boat when I was pushing off.

First prop was a 15" stainless not sure what type this was the boatyard
owner just wanted to see how it went. Out of the hole the 15" was Very Very
quick . Straight up to full noise saw the tacho at 5500rpm and about 40 Mph.
Now ALL of these speeds are on the motor speedo as my Eagle Gps would not
work. working all through the rev range was responsive and towy. Hard
turning at all speeds saw no slip or cavitation. And looking over the
transom and from other observations the motor needs to be lifted up another
hole. This will come on Monday's test run which we will have a GPS.

PROP 2-- SST 17" hole shot was still very good, Rpm's dropped by 200 and
speed increased by only about 1~2 Mph.But had to wind it out.
The Motor sounded like and to me,wanted to rev harder ,turning hard was very
good and again no slippage or cavitation.
Next test with the motor higher will give us more revs and better be able to
feel its true potential.
As told from this site the SST 17" will be the prop for me I think.

Took a 18" RAKER along to see what would happen, Well to no surprise it was
the worst out of the hole,went down to 4900~5000 Rpm, But this one you had
to wind right out and speed increased to floating between 46~47 Mph. With
more revs this prop would get you moving along quick but just to long to get
there. With the vented holes in the prop it would cavitate a little and slip
on hard turns and then bite in again. But after winding it out it was sweet
.. We just wanted to try it and have fun anyway.

Took the cowl off and very little oil had been used after nearly 2 hours of
use. No we don't have the Special oil in Australia as yet . So far this
motor is fantastic, quite through all rev ranges and I had a four stroke
before this motor. starting was instantaneous ,No smoke what so ever idled
ever so smoothly, I am E-tec cited. Smile

My next run will be with the motor lifted and do believe this will make a
hell of a difference to the performance. So stayed tuned.
Thanks for the help .

--------------------
Tony<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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Billgran

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Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 200



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:07 pm
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"RG" <rgross5.TakeThisOut@housXXton.rr.com> wrote in message
news:H2YEb.72824$HH.8803@fe1.texas.rr.com...
 > Anyone know how many Johnson E-Techs are out there and how have they
faired
 > so far?


Damn! I hadn't had my morning coffee yet and missed the "Johnson" in the
post entirely. The E-TEC's are Evinrudes, the Johnson line consists of
4-strokes up to 225hp and traditional 2-strokes up to 175hp.

Bill Grannis
service manager.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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RG2

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Since: Oct 04, 2003
Posts: 65



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:53 pm
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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re Johnson/Evinrude...no matter to me, I still see them as one company but I
do understand the internal differentiation.

The boat hull, alas, is STILL at the manufacturer. It is a 1989 hull and NO
ONE seems to have any statistics .. i.e. weight, etc.. I contacted the
manufacturer ( www.elpescadorboats.com ) but he recently bought the company,
and apparently no records were handy going back to when they stopped making
( 1990 ) this small sized tunnel hull boat.

I recently bought the hull because, ten or so years ago, I owned one of them
and loved its ride. That boat was equipped with a 55 h.p. Suzuki, and was
squatty in the rear end at rest, but needed no help getting up on plane and
running well across any water I pointed her.

The hull shape has a high bow, clean wave-cutting shapes, and then slides
off into a flat rear end with a tunnel cut in. Deep water if needed (
really, just might need it for a wind blown bay, rather than deep water) and
skinny water with the tunnel. It is a well regarded boat here on the Texas
flats.

I'll weigh the boat/trailer combination when they get done fixing a few
stress cracks in the hull. I'll subtract the weight of the trailer and I'll
have a pretty good weight / sans /engine to start with. The only dealer that
I found that knew anything about the smaller ElPescadors said a 50 hp was
what most of them ran back in the late 80's. Please take a look at the site
to see the hull shape, and tell me what you think. I much prefer small,
rather than large, engines for my use, which includes a lot of trailering 70
miles one way to go catch ( or try to ) a fish.

regards ( and I really do appreciate the help and input on this group).

RichG
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Clams Canino3

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Since: Dec 31, 2003
Posts: 44



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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ya...... Jonnyrude Inc hehe

-W (a Mercoholic)


"RG" <rgross5.RemoveThis@housXXton.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pF2Fb.73589$HH.29739@fe1.texas.rr.com...

 > re Johnson/Evinrude...no matter to me, I still see them as one company<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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duckboats44

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Since: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 3



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:14 am
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rich,

Having spoken with the factory service reps a number of times, they tell me
all the E-TEC motors are performing really well. I was told the only
significant item was shipping damage between the factory and their dealers.

I've also had the opportunity to drive a couple of boats with 50 hp E-TEC
installed. Three of us went for about a 10 mile test ride at a meeting.
It's astounding how quiet they are, we only had to raise our voices to talk
over the wind noise at full throttle! I also have some performance data on
a 40 hp E-TEC on a Carolina Skiff 20mpg @ 1000 rpm and 8.1 mpg @ 4500 rpm
cruise speed - I'm rather impressed with the fuel economy.

Best of luck with your new motor, please inform us how you like it once
you've had a chance to run it.

-John



"RG" <rgross5.DeleteThis@housXXton.rr.com> wrote in message
news:H2YEb.72824$HH.8803@fe1.texas.rr.com...
 > Anyone know how many Johnson E-Techs are out there and how have they
faired
 > so far?
 >
 > I'm a week or so away from purchasing a 50 hp and hate the idea of being
the
 > first with new technology.
 > Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
 > RichG
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Billgran

External


Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 200



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:02 pm
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

RG" <rgross5.TakeThisOut@housXXton.rr.com> wrote in message
news:H2YEb.72824$HH.8803@fe1.texas.rr.com...

 > I'm a week or so away from purchasing a 50 hp and hate the idea of being
the
 > first with new technology.
 > Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
 > RichG



Check with your dealer as there is a 7 year extended warranty or a $4 per hp
rebate promotion on new Evinrude & Johnson motors 40hp and up. It is only
at participating dealers, so it would be good to check out.

What is the length of the boat that you have?

Bill Grannis
service manager<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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K Smith

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Since: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 90



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

RG wrote:
 > Anyone know how many Johnson E-Techs are out there and how have they faired
 > so far?
 >
 > I'm a week or so away from purchasing a 50 hp and hate the idea of being the
 > first with new technology.
 > Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
 > RichG
 >
 >

Don't under any circumstances buy one!! They're experimental at
best & just another EX OMC consumer ripoff at worst.

They are a "modified" ficht, they have in no manner dealt with the
root cause of the ficht failures (lean mixtures on poorly atomised low
pressure injection) & there are good reasons to think they too will fail
at a way too high rate. You could be one of the lucky ones but ...


Don't ever expect those that sell them to tell you anything but
rosy stories about them, gee Bill a Florida dealer was telling this NG
he'd never even seen a failed Ficht at the height of the Ficht debacle!!!

As for the claimed warranties there's the proof positive that
they're suspect.

just another view:-)


K<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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basskisser

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Since: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 639



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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K Smith <goawayplease.TakeThisOut@msn.com> wrote in message news:<bs68ps$9pr42$1@ID-
 > Don't under any circumstances buy one!! They're experimental at
 > best & just another EX OMC consumer ripoff at worst.
 >
 > They are a "modified" ficht, they have in no manner dealt with the
 > root cause of the ficht failures (lean mixtures on poorly atomised low
 > pressure injection) & there are good reasons to think they too will fail
 > at a way too high rate. You could be one of the lucky ones but ...
 >
 >
 > Don't ever expect those that sell them to tell you anything but
 > rosy stories about them, gee Bill a Florida dealer was telling this NG
 > he'd never even seen a failed Ficht at the height of the Ficht debacle!!!
 >
 > As for the claimed warranties there's the proof positive that
 > they're suspect.
 >
 > just another view:-)

Please provide any data that backs up any of your wild allegations. If
they are "experimental at best", how are the public getting their
hands on them? Do you have any substantial evidence that they are,
indeed, "modified ficht"? What IS the failure rate you speak of,
exactly?
Because they give a decent warranty for once, they must immediately be
"suspect"?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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duckboats44

External


Since: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 3



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:04 am
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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K. Smith, I have similar questions: I realize I'm a relatively new to
posting in this forum, but could you enlighten me/us as to how you know:

1. "They are a "modified" ficht,"

2. "they have in no manner dealt with the root cause of the ficht failures
(lean mixtures on poorly atomised low pressure injection)"

and for that matter:

3. What is your definition of (or what do you consider) "low pressure
injection"?

4. Could you please tell us what the injection pressure of E-TEC are?

John

"K Smith" <goawayplease.TakeThisOut@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bs68ps$9pr42$1@ID-133999.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > RG wrote:
  > > Anyone know how many Johnson E-Techs are out there and how have they
faired
  > > so far?
  > >
  > > I'm a week or so away from purchasing a 50 hp and hate the idea of being
the
  > > first with new technology.
  > > Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
  > > RichG
  > >
  > >
 >
 > Don't under any circumstances buy one!! They're experimental at
 > best & just another EX OMC consumer ripoff at worst.
 >
 > They are a "modified" ficht, they have in no manner dealt with the
 > root cause of the ficht failures (lean mixtures on poorly atomised low
 > pressure injection) & there are good reasons to think they too will fail
 > at a way too high rate. You could be one of the lucky ones but ...
 >
 >
 > Don't ever expect those that sell them to tell you anything but
 > rosy stories about them, gee Bill a Florida dealer was telling this NG
 > he'd never even seen a failed Ficht at the height of the Ficht debacle!!!
 >
 > As for the claimed warranties there's the proof positive that
 > they're suspect.
 >
 > just another view:-)
 >
 >
 > K
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Billgran

External


Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 200



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:42 am
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"John from Illinois" <duckboats44.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ULKFb.9567$wL6.6573@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
 > K. Smith, I have similar questions: I realize I'm a relatively new to
 > posting in this forum, but could you enlighten me/us as to how you know:
 >
 > 1. "They are a "modified" ficht,"
 >
 > 2. "they have in no manner dealt with the root cause of the ficht failures
 > (lean mixtures on poorly atomised low pressure injection)"
 >
 > and for that matter:
 >
 > 3. What is your definition of (or what do you consider) "low pressure
 > injection"?
 >
 > 4. Could you please tell us what the injection pressure of E-TEC are?
 >
 > John
 >

John from Illinois,

Your first questions to Karen should be what her qualifications are, how
many FICHT's she has worked on, why she gets information from her "blokes"
but does not believe the factory, why she thinks FICHTs (later than 2000)
have problems, and how she knows anything about warranty numbers..

Most of the readers ignore her ramblings and rantings and ravings. You will
probably get 4 or 5 pages of cut and paste stuff from the last five years
that do not make any sense.

Bill Grannis
service manager<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Harry Krause1

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Since: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 1797



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:42 am
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Billgran wrote:

 > "John from Illinois" <duckboats44.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
 > news:ULKFb.9567$wL6.6573@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
  >> K. Smith, I have similar questions: I realize I'm a relatively new to
  >> posting in this forum, but could you enlighten me/us as to how you know:
  >>
  >> 1. "They are a "modified" ficht,"
  >>
  >> 2. "they have in no manner dealt with the root cause of the ficht failures
  >> (lean mixtures on poorly atomised low pressure injection)"
  >>
  >> and for that matter:
  >>
  >> 3. What is your definition of (or what do you consider) "low pressure
  >> injection"?
  >>
  >> 4. Could you please tell us what the injection pressure of E-TEC are?
  >>
  >> John
  >>
 >
 > John from Illinois,
 >
 > Your first questions to Karen should be what her qualifications are, how
 > many FICHT's she has worked on, why she gets information from her "blokes"
 > but does not believe the factory, why she thinks FICHTs (later than 2000)
 > have problems, and how she knows anything about warranty numbers..
 >
 > Most of the readers ignore her ramblings and rantings and ravings. You will
 > probably get 4 or 5 pages of cut and paste stuff from the last five years
 > that do not make any sense.
 >
 > Bill Grannis
 > service manager

I think Karen made the most revealing comments about herself recently
when she actually responded to questions about the diesel outboard motor
she imagines she manufactures.

We've been hearing about this damned motor from her for years. The only
photo I've ever seen of what she claims to be her diesel outboard shows
what looks like a clapped-out old Homelite outboard top end welded to a
jerry-rigged lower unit that looks as if it were made in a seventh-grade
shop class.

According to Karen herself:

1. She has no factory to manufacture these outboards.

2. She has no product literature about these outboards

3. She has been "manufacturing them" for several years, but has no
production numbers to offer

4. She has no distributors buying carloads of these engines

5. She has no dealers buying from distributors or even direct from the
factory. In fact, she is clueless about modern methods of distribution
and sales.

6. She has no significant news or magazine clippings to share that
indicate the outboard is in manufacture

Further

7. No one at either of the two well-known commercial enterprises in
Australia who handled diesel outboards (one imports Yanmars and the
other modifies Yanmars for the military) has ever heard of Karen
Elizabeth Smith or her "Taipan" brand of diesel outboard

8. The name she chose for her imaginary line of diesel outboards,
"Taipan," is in use by a manufacturer of tiny diesel model airplane engines

9. She is unwilling to supply a list of names of those who have
purchased one of these diesel outboards

10. She has no way of offering warranty service on these diesel
outboards if she ever does make and sell any.


Draw your own conclusions.







--
Email sent to piedtypecase.DeleteThis@yahoo.com is never read.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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FishFan

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Since: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 37



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:42 am
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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John,

I'm no fan of Karen and as a Johnson owner and DFI fan considering
purchasing a new motor I've challenged her here to provide the kind of
backup info Bill and others have demanded... to no avail. However,
what I have decided is that right or wrong there's a sizable number of
people who are leery J/E in general and of Ficht/E-Tec in particular.
More importantly a portion of those would never buy one, new or used.
If you never plan to sell your boat, and you trust Bombardier and/or
the new owners then by all means who gives a sh*t about anyone else's
opinion. But if you ever plan to sell, you will cutting out a portion
of potential buyers and probaly will get a lower price if there's a
J/E on the back, and even more if its Ficht/E-tec.

Sorry Bill - I just call'em as I see'em, and selling a boat is a pain
enough w/o the added burden of a big 'ol question mark hangin on the
transom.

Even though I could probably save a few grand going w/ an E-tec (a
year ago my local J/E dealer qoted me a "deal" at $14,700 for a 225
that now I see on sale for $9950 plus gimmicks), I've decided to
re-power w/a Yamaha HPDI instead... unless I change my mind and decide
to squeak another year out of my carbuerated Johnson smoke machine...

FishFan
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Boatriggr

External


Since: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 7



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

 >
 >RG wrote:
  >> Anyone know how many Johnson E-Techs are out there and how have they faired
  >> so far?
  >>
  >> I'm a week or so away from purchasing a 50 hp and hate the idea of being
 >the
  >> first with new technology.
  >> Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
  >> RichG
  >>
  >>
 >
 > Don't under any circumstances buy one!! They're experimental at
 >best & just another EX OMC consumer ripoff at worst.
 >
 > They are a "modified" ficht, they have in no manner dealt with the
 >root cause of the ficht failures (lean mixtures on poorly atomised low
 >pressure injection) & there are good reasons to think they too will fail
 >at a way too high rate. You could be one of the lucky ones but ...
 >
 >
 > Don't ever expect those that sell them to tell you anything but
 >rosy stories about them, gee Bill a Florida dealer was telling this NG
 >he'd never even seen a failed Ficht at the height of the Ficht debacle!!!
 >
 > As for the claimed warranties there's the proof positive that
 >they're suspect.
 >
 > just another view:-)

Karen,

Your view stinks.While I normally just lurk, I can't stand your attitude to
reputable posters.
Why don't you offer a solution rather than the long boring posts spruiking your
biased opinion? And why don't you and your blokes build a better motor? By
reading your posts you certainly pretend to have the knowledge!
I saw the diesel outboard contraption you have been spruiking for years.If
that's a better motor than the ficht or e tech why don't your blokes bring it
to market?

I am not an OMC fan. In fact I worked for the competition for a long time. BUT
I hope they succeed. Their new products are doing well. I wonder how many you
personally have seen or worked on?

I am certain OMC would love to have you on board to solve all of their
problems. You can become a famous for turning around a wonderful company with a
great heritage.Now that would be something to be proud of.
Instead you spend your days in the newsgroup insulting nice people with your
spruiking instead of offering a solution. Do us all a favor and put you and
your blokes enormous knowledge to do some good instead of being so negative.

Thank you, Happy Holidays.
BR<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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del cecchi

External


Since: Dec 02, 2003
Posts: 49



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: E-Techs in the 50-hp range [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Boatriggr" <boatriggr.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031222191009.04031.00001587@mb-m07.aol.com...
 >
 > Your view stinks.While I normally just lurk, I can't stand your
attitude to
 > reputable posters.
 > Why don't you offer a solution rather than the long boring posts
spruiking your
 > biased opinion? And why don't you and your blokes build a better
motor? By
 > reading your posts you certainly pretend to have the knowledge!
 > I saw the diesel outboard contraption you have been spruiking for
years.If
 > that's a better motor than the ficht or e tech why don't your blokes
bring it
 > to market?
 >
 > I am not an OMC fan. In fact I worked for the competition for a long
time. BUT
 > I hope they succeed. Their new products are doing well. I wonder how
many you
 > personally have seen or worked on?
 >
 > I am certain OMC would love to have you on board to solve all of their
 > problems. You can become a famous for turning around a wonderful
company with a
 > great heritage.Now that would be something to be proud of.
 > Instead you spend your days in the newsgroup insulting nice people
with your
 > spruiking instead of offering a solution. Do us all a favor and put
you and
 > your blokes enormous knowledge to do some good instead of being so
negative.
 >
 > Thank you, Happy Holidays.
 > BR

As a man of science and a neutral mercury owner, let me try to summarize
the background.

OMC was a large and well respected manufacturer of Outboard motors
(don't laugh clams) with stockholders and many long time employees.
Long about the time the EPA put emission limits on outboards they came
out with a line of outboards based on FICHT technology which they
purchased, along with the company, from its german inventors. FICHT was
based on a solenoid forcing gas through an orifice directly into the
cylinder.

At about the same time, 1998 model year, OMC had quality and reliability
problems, especially with the 150 hp Ficht motors. These and other
problems culminated with OMC filing bankruptcy and liquidating, with the
assets being purchased by Bombardier. During this difficult time OMC
and the boating press and allegedly some of the dealer related folks on
rec.boats were less than forthcoming about the scope and cause of the
problems. Several rounds of fixes were rolled out to the field, and
modifications were made to following years' models.

Now Bombardier is selling the line of motors and once again the public
is being told that the problems are in the past and the motors are
reliable. And there is this new or modified technology that is even
better. The press is writing glowing articles.

I am unaware of any comprehensive objective data available to the public
on the reliability and quality of various models and vintages of OMC
products. This is also true for Mercury, Yamaha, and all other brands.

Karen has a personal distaste for the dealer system, and in addition
believes that there is a fundamental problem which prevents an emissions
clean two stroke from being reliable. She says this is due to the high
heat produced by lean operation leading to detonation on throttle up.

The OMC employees, customers, and stockholders paid a high price for the
mismanagement and problems of the past. One cannot help feeling sorrow
for their experience. Who has the story right shall be revealed in the
next few years.

As an individual with no data except a past mea culpa from OMC
management, it is impossible for me to know what the truth is. I guess
you pays your money and you takes your chances.

del cecchi<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: E-Techs in the 50-hp range 
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