Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?

I've recently wondered about the expense of tinned wire when all my wiring
problems come from the terminals and connections on my 30 year old boat with
original wiring.
I know tinned is the latest and greatest, but not too many years back the
latest and greatest was lamp cord. I'm sure there is a new latest and
greatest just around the corner........
MMC
"Tom Shilson" <tshilson.DeleteThis@netalliance.net> wrote in message
news:L%9tc.3626$UP5.3188@fe39.usenetserver.com...
 > Ytter wrote:
 >
  > > I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
  > > boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
  > > Thank You,
  > > Ytter
  > >
  > >
 > Use tinned, stranded wire. The stranded wire is more flexible and less
 > likely to break. The tinning prevents salt water/air from seeping under
 > the insulation and corroding the wire.
 >
 > Tom
 > of the Sweetwater Sea
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

RE: Subject

If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.

Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid engineering.


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

Never use solid core wire on anything that moves, vibrates, or flexes- Cars,
boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)


"Ytter" <katskradle RemoveThis @sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:lO8tc.45364$tb4.1448864@news20.bellglobal.com...
 > I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
 > boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
 > Thank You,
 > Ytter
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?

do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.

anyone?

"Stanley Barthfarkle" <sbarth.DeleteThis@yahoo.con> wrote in message news:<tEdtc.1094$n65.1031@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>...
 > Never use solid core wire on anything that moves, vibrates, or flexes- Cars,
 > boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
 > never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
 > weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)
 >
 >
 > "Ytter" <katskradle.DeleteThis@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
 > news:lO8tc.45364$tb4.1448864@news20.bellglobal.com...
  > > I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
  > > boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
  > > Thank You,
  > > Ytter
  > >
  > ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

"Stanley Barthfarkle" <sbarth.RemoveThis@yahoo.con> wrote in message news:<tEdtc.1094$n65.1031@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>...
 > Never use solid core wire on anything that moves, vibrates, or flexes- Cars,
 > boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
 > never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
 > weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)

Not to mention that stranded wire allows for more, in laymens terms,
flow of energy, less resistance in stranded wire... has to do with
surface area, but that is another story. Anyway, I almost agree with
the guy that said "if you have to ask,...", except I will say, if you
have to ask, you have a lot more reading to do Hopefully, your
origional question has been answered here.
Scotty

 >
 >
 > "Ytter" <katskradle.RemoveThis@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
 > news:lO8tc.45364$tb4.1448864@news20.bellglobal.com...
  > > I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
  > > boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
  > > Thank You,
  > > Ytter
  > >
  > ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, mike_sutton_nospam DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Michael
Sutton) wrote:

 >
 >do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
 >for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
 >in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
 >to this expense.

Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.

I have a 1973 racer cruiser made by Ontario Yachts, a reputable firm
known for solid boats (Ontario 28, 32, Niagara 35, etc.)

The electric wires in the boat are original except where I've changed
them. I intend to change all of them eventually, as I intend to
relocate the batteries, charger, etc. under a settee next to the mast
for better weight distribution.

The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.

Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.

I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

All new hard-wired devices, like gas/propane alarm and solenoid, depth
sounder, etc. get 14 or 16 gauge Ancor wire to the panel depending on
draw. As I have a stock 35 amp alternator on my Atomic 4, I try to
avoid heavy draws where possible.

On the AC side, yes, there is obviously 10 gauge exterior Romex-type
wire going from the hook-up to a small 30 amp fuse box which uses the
"shotgun cartridge" style of brass-ended fuses. They haven't blown in
the five years I've owned the boat. The two pairs of AC outlets on the
boat are properly grounded, but the Romex is beginning to get
tired-looking. When I get a new panel next year I will replace it with
10 gauge marine wire because I want proper AC circuit breakers, a
hard-wired charger, a small inverter, full isolation and two extra
paired outlets, one in the V-berth so I can run power tools in the
anchor locker, and one in the nav station for a PC as we are getting
wireless networking at the YC and I like to download weather maps
before I cruise.

My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
that way as well.

Hope this helps. I am learning as well and quite enjoying myself. I
won't miss those little glass fuses, I can tell you.

R.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

"Ytter" <katskradle.TakeThisOut@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:lO8tc.45364$tb4.1448864@news20.bellglobal.com...
 > I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
 > boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?

The proper wire to use is stranded.

As others have said, the reason for this is that it is better for dealing
with vibration.

Another reason that YOU should use the proper wire is that it could become
very important if you ever plan on selling this boat. If a prospective
buyer has a survey done and the surveyor finds (and he should) that the boat
has been rewired with solid wire you may be looking at a rather expensive
job to restore the boat to a proper wiring configuration.

Rod McInnis<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

"Michael Sutton" <mike_sutton_nospam.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4ffb8c12.0405270654.5782974d@posting.google.com...


 > When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
 > the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
 > A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?
 >


Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical household
outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid wire won't work
for stranded.

Rod<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

"Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid engineering."
Sounds like a Bush press release none answer.
This guy has a legitimate question in spirit with the newsgroup.

"Lew Hodgett" <lewhodgett.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ZVctc.12240$Tn6.6019@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
 > RE: Subject
 >
 > If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.
 >
 > Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid engineering.
 >
 >
 > --
 > Lew
 >
 > S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
Southland)
 > Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, mike_sutton_nospam.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (Michael
Sutton) wrote:

 >When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
 >the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
 >A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?
 >
 >do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
 >for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
 >in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
 >to this expense.
 >
 >anyone?

My boat has stranded inside a wrapper that looks like Romex.

Some plastic pipe conduit runs, but not all of it is so protected.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

All the reasons given here for the use of stranded wire are for the most
part correct and reason enough to use tinned stranded wire. I am sure
that
the only reason you are disuaded from using real marine wire is cost, but
I just bought 1000' of 14/2 for 24 cents a foot here:

http://www.blackav.com/bai.php?page=11

their website was out of commission last I checked, but their phone
number
is 724-379-8628

To answer all the sceptics, YES, this is tinned, stranded, duplex UL1426
CG approved marine wire.


David
S/V Nausicaa
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

Rhys,
Have you come up with a model/plan for your LED lighting? There was a guy
some time ago (in this newsgroup) who had used 12vdc LED trailer lighting (I
believe from JC Whitney) in his boat. It gave an amber glow and was mounted
under the decks on either side of the cabin. Looked good. That msg string
included some very high tech-high price options.
I might get string of those LEDs and experiment....
"rhys" <rhys.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:li2cb0da8dfsbbkivg7667hkor4riebkoq@4ax.com...
 > On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, mike_sutton_nospam.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (Michael
 > Sutton) wrote:
 >
  > >
  > >do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
  > >for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
  > >in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
  > >to this expense.
 >
 > Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.
 >
 > I have a 1973 racer cruiser made by Ontario Yachts, a reputable firm
 > known for solid boats (Ontario 28, 32, Niagara 35, etc.)
 >
 > The electric wires in the boat are original except where I've changed
 > them. I intend to change all of them eventually, as I intend to
 > relocate the batteries, charger, etc. under a settee next to the mast
 > for better weight distribution.
 >
 > The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
 > common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
 > or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
 > running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
 > lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
 > light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.
 >
 > Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
 > replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
 > the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
 > if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
 > little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
 > cabinetry, etc.
 >
 > I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
 > Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.
 >
 > All new hard-wired devices, like gas/propane alarm and solenoid, depth
 > sounder, etc. get 14 or 16 gauge Ancor wire to the panel depending on
 > draw. As I have a stock 35 amp alternator on my Atomic 4, I try to
 > avoid heavy draws where possible.
 >
 > On the AC side, yes, there is obviously 10 gauge exterior Romex-type
 > wire going from the hook-up to a small 30 amp fuse box which uses the
 > "shotgun cartridge" style of brass-ended fuses. They haven't blown in
 > the five years I've owned the boat. The two pairs of AC outlets on the
 > boat are properly grounded, but the Romex is beginning to get
 > tired-looking. When I get a new panel next year I will replace it with
 > 10 gauge marine wire because I want proper AC circuit breakers, a
 > hard-wired charger, a small inverter, full isolation and two extra
 > paired outlets, one in the V-berth so I can run power tools in the
 > anchor locker, and one in the nav station for a PC as we are getting
 > wireless networking at the YC and I like to download weather maps
 > before I cruise.
 >
 > My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
 > install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
 > cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
 > dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
 > think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
 > end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
 > the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
 > hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
 > that way as well.
 >
 > Hope this helps. I am learning as well and quite enjoying myself. I
 > won't miss those little glass fuses, I can tell you.
 >
 > R.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY? 

rhys wrote:

 > On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, mike_sutton_nospam.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (Michael
 > Sutton) wrote:
 >
 >
  >>do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
  >>for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
  >>in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
  >>to this expense.
 >
 >
 > Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.
 >
 >
 > The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
 > common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
 > or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
 > running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
 > lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
 > light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.
 >
 > Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
 > replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
 > the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
 > if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
 > little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
 > cabinetry, etc.
 >
 > I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
 > Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

This has more to do with proper wire sizing than new wire or stranded wire.



--
the most committed always win<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?