the new NY State PWC operators license questions..

Check out:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://nysparks.state.ny.us/boats/pwc" target="_blank">http://nysparks.state.ny.us/boats/pwc</a>

All riders in NYS are required to take an "8 hour" boater's safety
course as of January 1st this year. I took it through the Monroe County
Sherriff's office. One Saturday of mind numbing common sense and you're
all set. Some boating supply stores will sell you the boater's safety
tape and arrange for you to take the test. A little more expensive but
it saves you a Saturday. Not sure where you got the 7 day number from.

Aaron

the game, man <llIjllI.DeleteThis@popquiz.org> wrote:
 > Anyone have any information regarding the new 2004 pwc operators license now
 > required by New York State, something about a mandatory 7 day school/testing
 > required for ALL pwc operators, regardless of age?

 > Specifically, would a Georgia pwc or boat operators license be acceptable,
 > I'm born in 1961?

 > What about the online Coast Guard watercraft testing program?

 > Thanks, Brett<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

Do they think this will help? I am skeptical, but atleast they made it for
every boat operator.
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

pilot77x.TakeThisOut@aol.com (Pilot77X) wrote in message news:<20040318095508.20558.00001568.TakeThisOut@mb-m28.aol.com>...

 > Do they think this will help? I am skeptical, but atleast they made it for
 > every boat operator.

Will it help? I'm all for education and if it takes making it
mandatory to get people to do it before getting out on the water, I'm
for it. Not sure what you mean by every boat operator - no licensing
in effect in NYS for other boats than pwc's, but there is in Ct.

Anyway, I've often read that statistics show that, for instance, in
New Jersey and other states, pwc accident statistics have gone way
down since instituting licensing requirements (NJ has had it for a
number of years already I think). So yes in that sense it seems to
"work"!

richforman<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

  >> Do they think this will help? I am skeptical, but atleast they made it for
  >> every boat operator.
 >
 >Will it help? I'm all for education and if it takes making it
 >mandatory to get people to do it before getting out on the water, I'm
 >for it. Not sure what you mean by every boat operator - no licensing
 >in effect in NYS for other boats than pwc's, but there is in Ct.
 >
 >Anyway, I've often read that statistics show that, for instance, in
 >New Jersey and other states, pwc accident statistics have gone way
 >down since instituting licensing requirements (NJ has had it for a
 >number of years already I think). So yes in that sense it seems to
 >"work"!
 >
 >richforman

More likely they just drive people off. I'm in PA which instituted a similar
class/"license" requirement for PWC operation. I have mine, but the requirement
is just indicative of the anti-PWC mindset here and all of the absurd rules. I
just leave my seadoo at my mothers house on the Ohio river in WV and go there
to ride now. It's just no fun in PA.

Dave Hall<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

dhall987.DeleteThis@cs.com (David Hall) wrote in message news:<20040318191540.03282.00001516.DeleteThis@mb-m23.news.cs.com>...
   > >> Do they think this will help? I am skeptical, but atleast they made it for
   > >> every boat operator.
  > >
  > >Will it help? I'm all for education and if it takes making it
  > >mandatory to get people to do it before getting out on the water, I'm
  > >for it. Not sure what you mean by every boat operator - no licensing
  > >in effect in NYS for other boats than pwc's, but there is in Ct.
  > >
  > >Anyway, I've often read that statistics show that, for instance, in
  > >New Jersey and other states, pwc accident statistics have gone way
  > >down since instituting licensing requirements (NJ has had it for a
  > >number of years already I think). So yes in that sense it seems to
  > >"work"!
  > >
  > >richforman
 >
 > More likely they just drive people off. I'm in PA which instituted a similar
 > class/"license" requirement for PWC operation. I have mine, but the
 > requirement is just indicative of the anti-PWC mindset here and all of the
 > absurd rules. I just leave my seadoo at my mothers house on the Ohio river
 > in WV and go there to ride now. It's just no fun in PA.
 >
 > Dave Hall

Wow, I totally disagree. There lots of anti-PWC discrimination and
mindset in lots of places, but I don't think mandatory education and
licensing is part of it - quite the contrary, I think these should be
applied to anyone who wants to drive a boat of any kind - everybody's
be safer. What are the absurd rules in PA? I get aggravated by areas
that have arbitrarily restricted pwc's from riding through, and cops
who seem overly inclined to pull us over on 'skis, but the rules
themselves, staying away from boats, swimmers, etc.; obeying no wake
zones, being registered, wearing PFD's and having the required safety
equipment on board....don't bother me, they all seem reasonable. I
actually think I've never gotten a chance to ride any of my 'skis in
PA (although I grew up and went to college there, but moved here to
Long Island back in '87 and have only gotten into boating and
jetskiing since then)....why isn't it any fun?

richforman<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

On 19 Mar 2004, Rich Forman wrote:

 > Wow, I totally disagree. There lots of anti-PWC discrimination and
 > mindset in lots of places, but I don't think mandatory education and
 > licensing is part of it - quite the contrary, I think these should be
 > applied to anyone who wants to drive a boat of any kind - everybody's
 > be safer. What are the absurd rules in PA? I get aggravated by areas
 > that have arbitrarily restricted pwc's from riding through, and cops
 > who seem overly inclined to pull us over on 'skis, but the rules
 > themselves, staying away from boats, swimmers, etc.; obeying no wake
 > zones, being registered, wearing PFD's and having the required safety
 > equipment on board....don't bother me, they all seem reasonable. I
 > actually think I've never gotten a chance to ride any of my 'skis in
 > PA (although I grew up and went to college there, but moved here to
 > Long Island back in '87 and have only gotten into boating and
 > jetskiing since then)....why isn't it any fun?

I agree that mandatory education should be required for _all_ boaters.
Thing is, PA doesn't. PA requires that _all_ PWC operators take a course,
but does not force the same requirement on all boaters. (info can be found
at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.fish.state.pa.us" target="_blank">www.fish.state.pa.us</a>)

I would like to see reasonable rules (the ones you mention above are
certainly reasonable) applied AND ENFORCED for all boaters and PWC
operators.

I went to Raystown Lake in PA a couple of years back, and the anti-PWC
bias was ridiculous. I watched the cops pull over every single PWC that
they possibly could for no apparent reason while boaters seemed to be able
to ignore no-wake zones and other laws with no concern.

If not for a nice campground and the ability to get a waterfront campsite
and ski right out of the camper, I'd never even consider skiing in PA
again. As it is I haven't been back yet.

I ski on a regular basis in MD and have seen PWCs pulled over on multiple
occasions for stuff that I see boaters do all day long and not get hassled
for. It doesn't make the PWC operator any less guilty of the infraction,
it just clearly shows the anti-PWC bias. FWIW, MD does require that all
boaters younger than a particular age take a course, but the enforcement
is very biased in my experience.

That said, I'm typically embarrassed by at least 50% of the PWC operators
that I see there. This is why I tend to ski on the weekday evenings or
very early on the weekends before the idiot crowd arrives.

For the record, I've never received any sort ticket for any kind of 'water
infraction' so I'm not just whining 'cause I got caught...

Craig<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

I see the same thing ALL THE TIME.

 > I ski on a regular basis in MD and have seen PWCs pulled over on multiple
 > occasions for stuff that I see boaters do all day long and not get hassled
 > for.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

On 19 Mar 2004, Pilot77X wrote:

 > I have not gotten one ticket either, but if they are not making boaters take
 > the course, then the rule does nothing! If just one small group takes the
 > course it is pointless!

That all depends on your motivation/perspective.

If the courses discourange people to buy PWCs and you're one of the folks
who don't like PWCs than it could be viewed as positive. If you're one of
the _many_ people who dislike PWCs, the rule does something - however
unfair that something is.

On the other hand, if (like me) you're a responsible PWC owner/operator
who rides in constant fear of boat (and other PWC) operators who don't
have a clue then yeah, it's pretty biased/pointless.

It has been my experience that for the most part, boaters don't like PWCs
and support this bias.

I believe that all boat and PWC operators should be required to have some
form of formal education before being allowed on the water. Of course,
it's mostly pointless anyway... Just about everyone on the road has taken
some form of driver's education class, yet a day doesn't go by where I'm
not amazed at the total inability of some drivers.

Craig<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

I have not gotten one ticket either, but if they are not making boaters take
the course, then the rule does nothing! If just one small group takes the
course it is pointless!
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

 >
 >
 >
 > That said, I'm typically embarrassed by at least 50% of the PWC operators
 > that I see there. This is why I tend to ski on the weekday evenings or
 > very early on the weekends before the idiot crowd arrives.
 >
 >
 > Craig
 >
I think that pretty much says it all. The cops get so irritated with
that 50%, they take it out on everyone and can't say I blame them.
Self-enforcement is the answer. You see someone misbehaving on a PWC,
let them know it and then let them know if it continues, you'll
personally go find the fish and game officer to write them up. You're
not being an a-hole, their ruining it for the rest of us.

Tom<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

Pilot77X wrote:

 > I have not gotten one ticket either,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Although you are technically correct - you've not gotten "one" ticket,
you've gotten "several". Just kidding, where are the cops when you need
them! Hey, how's the bricklaying business?

ODB<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

Tom ......the brick laying business is not good. Craig and Pete worked one
day last week and I haven't seen them since. I will admit that it did rain
one day this week. I figure at the rate this job is going we could be
looking at 2009 by the time it is done. Deb got excited about the spring
flowers coming up in the area they are working and was sad that they would
be destroyed when they started again. I told her not to worry that it would
be several years before they got that far in the project to disturb the
flowers.

The next time those boy's show up I am going to chain them to the cement
bags and keep them there until the job is done..... Maybe not a good idea as
we all know how much Craig can eat.

Later Bro.
Gary


"Tom Howlin" <tom4416.RemoveThis@erols.com> wrote in message
news:405b76d5$0$3040$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
 >
 >
 > Pilot77X wrote:
 >
  > > I have not gotten one ticket either,
 >
 >
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
 >
 > Although you are technically correct - you've not gotten "one" ticket,
 > you've gotten "several". Just kidding, where are the cops when you need
 > them! Hey, how's the bricklaying business?
 >
 > ODB
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions.. 

Craig Faison <cfaison.DeleteThis@magpage.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.BSF.4.33.0403191157350.8719-100000.DeleteThis@alaska.magpage.com>...
 > On 19 Mar 2004, Pilot77X wrote:
 >
  > > I have not gotten one ticket either, but if they are not making boaters
  > > take the course, then the rule does nothing! If just one small group
  > >the course it is pointless!
 >
 > That all depends on your motivation/perspective.
 >
 > If the courses discourange people to buy PWCs and you're one of the folks
 > who don't like PWCs than it could be viewed as positive.

Interesting discussion. Seems to me that if someone is discouraged by
the course from buying a pwc, they're really missing out, talk about
cutting off your nose to spite your face or however that goes. If
they bought the pwc and took the course, they'd be much safer and have
a lot more fun, and be a positive representative for all pwc'ers if
they remembered and used what they learned.

Otherwise, although I think that all boaters should have training
requirements, I also think that even if it's just pwc'ers - although
that's unfair, it will increase safety on the water, by at least a
small percentage, for all of us out there - it doesn't "do nothing."
I am in favor or mandatory education and licensing requirements for
all boaters, but not against it for pwc'ers, not at all.

 > If you're one of
 > the _many_ people who dislike PWCs, the rule does something - however
 > unfair that something is.
 >
 > On the other hand, if (like me) you're a responsible PWC owner/operator
 > who rides in constant fear of boat (and other PWC) operators who don't
 > have a clue then yeah, it's pretty biased/pointless.
 >

I don't get your point. The fewer uneducated pwc'ers are allowed to
buy their 'skis and just jump on them without learning something about
boating rules and safety, the less fear you have to live in from them.
If they mandated the course for other boaters, then there'd be even
fewer idiots and maniacs to fear out there.

 > It has been my experience that for the most part, boaters don't like PWCs
 > and support this bias.
 >

I don't make a distinction between pwc'ers and boaters....we're a
subset.

 > I believe that all boat and PWC operators should be required to have some
 > form of formal education before being allowed on the water. Of course,
 > it's mostly pointless anyway... Just about everyone on the road has taken
 > some form of driver's education class, yet a day doesn't go by where I'm
 > not amazed at the total inability of some drivers.
 >

It's different for driving, though. A friend who's a knowledgeable
boater pointed this out to me once. With driving a car, even before
you have your first driver's license, you have maybe fifteen years'
experience seeing your parents do it and riding in the car
observing....so you kind of know the basics at least on some level,
how to operate the controls, negotiate traffic, about parking,
turning, signals, highway signs, stop lights/signs, lanes,etc., etc.,
etc.. With boating many of us jump into it all of a sudden later in
life, with NO experience or background and no idea what to do. That's
s one of the reasons why statistically boating is way more dangerous
(I'd guess!) than driving cars, and one of the reasons education and
licensing should be mandatory, just like it is with cars. It won't
keep idiots and drunks off the road or off the water completely, but
it would go a long way toward reducing problems! The stats in NJ that
I've read about with pwc licensing bear this out.

richforman


 > Craig<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: the new NY State PWC operators license questions..