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Since: Sep 09, 2005
Posts: 22
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:12 pm
Post subject: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna
Archived from groups: rec>boats>electronics (more info?)
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External
Since: Aug 07, 2004
Posts: 171
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Al Thomason wrote:
> How concerned do I need to be about an Air Horn (Buell, 17/23") near a
> SSB antenna? The location I am going to put the whip in has an air
> horn perhaps 1' forward. Should I relocate the horn to the other
> side?
>
The blast effect or "felt" air pressure from those horns is actually
very little. I doubt that there would be any effect with the antenna
one foot away. If they are good horns, you'll need someone to put their
fingers in your ears while you test my statement.
A good set of Buell's is a requisite for any power boat that wants to
have any credibility. And then you can tune them too, did you know
that? If you can put small an inline regulator on the main feed line
and on one or both individual air lines to the horns, you can get the
sound to go into harmonic oscillations on the longer blasts. It is a
beautiful thing when it starts happening after one or two seconds. It
adds a real "I'd better pay attention and start looking for this guy!"
quality. A good skipper does not use his horns a lot but needs to be
heard when he does.
I have a Buell motorcycle, I often think of air horns when I look at it.
That big, lovely, Harley-Davidson V-Twin dinosaur engine seems to have
something in common with a pair of air horns. And I'd like to have a
set of Buells on my Buell but there is not really room for them.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
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External
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 213
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article ,
Jack Erbes wrote:
> Al Thomason wrote:
>
> > How concerned do I need to be about an Air Horn (Buell, 17/23") near a
> > SSB antenna? The location I am going to put the whip in has an air
> > horn perhaps 1' forward. Should I relocate the horn to the other
> > side?
> >
>
> The blast effect or "felt" air pressure from those horns is actually
> very little. I doubt that there would be any effect with the antenna
> one foot away. If they are good horns, you'll need someone to put their
> fingers in your ears while you test my statement.
>
> A good set of Buell's is a requisite for any power boat that wants to
> have any credibility. And then you can tune them too, did you know
> that? If you can put small an inline regulator on the main feed line
> and on one or both individual air lines to the horns, you can get the
> sound to go into harmonic oscillations on the longer blasts. It is a
> beautiful thing when it starts happening after one or two seconds. It
> adds a real "I'd better pay attention and start looking for this guy!"
> quality. A good skipper does not use his horns a lot but needs to be
> heard when he does.
>
> I have a Buell motorcycle, I often think of air horns when I look at it.
> That big, lovely, Harley-Davidson V-Twin dinosaur engine seems to have
> something in common with a pair of air horns. And I'd like to have a
> set of Buells on my Buell but there is not really room for them.
>
> Jack
Jack, he wasn't worried about how the antenna effected the air horn...
he was worried if the air horn would effect the antenna......
Answer is, wait for it...... NO
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @ >> Stay informed about: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2005
Posts: 22
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Thanks, yes, effect on the SSB was what I was asking about.
Like the idea of tuning the Buell horns though! Just might look at
that.
re: location: great, can leave them on the Port side, away from my
ears when I sound them 
-al-
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:12:45 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:
>In article ,
> Jack Erbes wrote:
>
>> Al Thomason wrote:
>>
>> > How concerned do I need to be about an Air Horn (Buell, 17/23") near a
>> > SSB antenna? The location I am going to put the whip in has an air
>> > horn perhaps 1' forward. Should I relocate the horn to the other
>> > side?
>> >
>>
>> The blast effect or "felt" air pressure from those horns is actually
>> very little. I doubt that there would be any effect with the antenna
>> one foot away. If they are good horns, you'll need someone to put their
>> fingers in your ears while you test my statement.
>>
>> A good set of Buell's is a requisite for any power boat that wants to
>> have any credibility. And then you can tune them too, did you know
>> that? If you can put small an inline regulator on the main feed line
>> and on one or both individual air lines to the horns, you can get the
>> sound to go into harmonic oscillations on the longer blasts. It is a
>> beautiful thing when it starts happening after one or two seconds. It
>> adds a real "I'd better pay attention and start looking for this guy!"
>> quality. A good skipper does not use his horns a lot but needs to be
>> heard when he does.
>>
>> I have a Buell motorcycle, I often think of air horns when I look at it.
>> That big, lovely, Harley-Davidson V-Twin dinosaur engine seems to have
>> something in common with a pair of air horns. And I'd like to have a
>> set of Buells on my Buell but there is not really room for them.
>>
>> Jack
>
>Jack, he wasn't worried about how the antenna effected the air horn...
>he was worried if the air horn would effect the antenna......
>
>Answer is, wait for it...... NO
>
>Bruce in alaska >> Stay informed about: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna |
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External
Since: Apr 19, 2006
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:29 am
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Al Thomason wrote:
> How concerned do I need to be about an Air Horn (Buell, 17/23") near a
> SSB antenna? The location I am going to put the whip in has an air
> horn perhaps 1' forward. Should I relocate the horn to the other
> side?
>
> Thank you
> -al-
>
I can foresee two possible issues. The first is that the air horn might
interfere with the SWR of the antenna or have an effect on its radiation
pattern. Personally I wouldn't be all that worried... there's tons of
stuff on a boat that has the potential to cause those problems. I doubt
if a horn will make that much of a difference.
The second issue has to do with RFI. I would not be surprised at all if
while transmitting with the ssb antenna you generate all sorts of noise
coming out of the horn. However, that can happen regardless of where on
the boat you place the horn. If it becomes annoying you can always try
to filter out the noise at the horn side. >> Stay informed about: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna |
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External
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 213
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article , brad
wrote:
> Al Thomason wrote:
> > How concerned do I need to be about an Air Horn (Buell, 17/23") near a
> > SSB antenna? The location I am going to put the whip in has an air
> > horn perhaps 1' forward. Should I relocate the horn to the other
> > side?
> >
> > Thank you
> > -al-
> >
>
> I can foresee two possible issues. The first is that the air horn might
> interfere with the SWR of the antenna or have an effect on its radiation
> pattern. Personally I wouldn't be all that worried... there's tons of
> stuff on a boat that has the potential to cause those problems. I doubt
> if a horn will make that much of a difference.
>
> The second issue has to do with RFI. I would not be surprised at all if
> while transmitting with the ssb antenna you generate all sorts of noise
> coming out of the horn. However, that can happen regardless of where on
> the boat you place the horn. If it becomes annoying you can always try
> to filter out the noise at the horn side.
Maybe you can explain just how the OP's "AIR HORN" would be suseptable
to RF Interference from a MF/HF Antenna/Radio system mounted in
proximity to the antenna. All the radiomen of the newsgroup would
certainly like to understand this amazing phenominon.
Then again, after you get done figuring that out, could you kindly
explain, just how the presence of a, presumably Grounded, "Air Horn"
would have any measureable effect on the SWR of an MF/HF Antenna
System that is driven by an AutoTuner, that would take into account any
Near Field Grounded Element, every time the AutoTuner retuned the
antenna at a Frequency change? The Capacity of a Grounded Element
One Foot away from the base of an MF/HF Antenna would be, at the
maximum, maybe 1 or 2 PicoFarads, which at MF, and even the High HF
Frequencies, would be insignificant compared to the other elements in the
Antenna Mounting Structures, and the active elements in the autotuner
itself. Maybe Lynn, Larry, or maybe even Gary S. can chime in with
"further Light and Knowledge", on the above issues.
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @ >> Stay informed about: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna |
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External
Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:27:22 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:
>In article , brad
>wrote:
>
>> Al Thomason wrote:
>> > How concerned do I need to be about an Air Horn (Buell, 17/23") near a
>> > SSB antenna? The location I am going to put the whip in has an air
>> > horn perhaps 1' forward. Should I relocate the horn to the other
>> > side?
>> >
>> > Thank you
>> > -al-
>> >
>>
>> I can foresee two possible issues. The first is that the air horn might
>> interfere with the SWR of the antenna or have an effect on its radiation
>> pattern. Personally I wouldn't be all that worried... there's tons of
>> stuff on a boat that has the potential to cause those problems. I doubt
>> if a horn will make that much of a difference.
>>
>> The second issue has to do with RFI. I would not be surprised at all if
>> while transmitting with the ssb antenna you generate all sorts of noise
>> coming out of the horn. However, that can happen regardless of where on
>> the boat you place the horn. If it becomes annoying you can always try
>> to filter out the noise at the horn side.
>
>Maybe you can explain just how the OP's "AIR HORN" would be suseptable
>to RF Interference from a MF/HF Antenna/Radio system mounted in
>proximity to the antenna. All the radiomen of the newsgroup would
>certainly like to understand this amazing phenominon.
>Then again, after you get done figuring that out, could you kindly
>explain, just how the presence of a, presumably Grounded, "Air Horn"
>would have any measureable effect on the SWR of an MF/HF Antenna
>System that is driven by an AutoTuner, that would take into account any
>Near Field Grounded Element, every time the AutoTuner retuned the
>antenna at a Frequency change? The Capacity of a Grounded Element
>One Foot away from the base of an MF/HF Antenna would be, at the
>maximum, maybe 1 or 2 PicoFarads, which at MF, and even the High HF
>Frequencies, would be insignificant compared to the other elements in the
>Antenna Mounting Structures, and the active elements in the autotuner
>itself. Maybe Lynn, Larry, or maybe even Gary S. can chime in with
>"further Light and Knowledge", on the above issues.
>
>Bruce in alaska
Well, you know Bruce; with all that air around the horn being heated
by the RF in close proximity there is bound to be some interference.
Not to mention the possibility of the horn being resonant and setting
up self oscillations of its own in the presence of the RF. :>)
Regards
Gary >> Stay informed about: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna |
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External
Since: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 125
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
> In article , brad
> wrote:
>
> > Al Thomason wrote:
> > > How concerned do I need to be about an Air Horn (Buell, 17/23") near a
> > > SSB antenna? The location I am going to put the whip in has an air
> > > horn perhaps 1' forward. Should I relocate the horn to the other
> > > side?
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > -al-
> > >
> >
> > I can foresee two possible issues. The first is that the air horn might
> > interfere with the SWR of the antenna or have an effect on its radiation
> > pattern. Personally I wouldn't be all that worried... there's tons of
> > stuff on a boat that has the potential to cause those problems. I doubt
> > if a horn will make that much of a difference.
> >
> > The second issue has to do with RFI. I would not be surprised at all if
> > while transmitting with the ssb antenna you generate all sorts of noise
> > coming out of the horn. However, that can happen regardless of where on
> > the boat you place the horn. If it becomes annoying you can always try
> > to filter out the noise at the horn side.
>
> Maybe you can explain just how the OP's "AIR HORN" would be suseptable
> to RF Interference from a MF/HF Antenna/Radio system mounted in
> proximity to the antenna. All the radiomen of the newsgroup would
> certainly like to understand this amazing phenominon.
> Then again, after you get done figuring that out, could you kindly
> explain, just how the presence of a, presumably Grounded, "Air Horn"
> would have any measureable effect on the SWR of an MF/HF Antenna
> System that is driven by an AutoTuner, that would take into account any
> Near Field Grounded Element, every time the AutoTuner retuned the
> antenna at a Frequency change? The Capacity of a Grounded Element
> One Foot away from the base of an MF/HF Antenna would be, at the
> maximum, maybe 1 or 2 PicoFarads, which at MF, and even the High HF
> Frequencies, would be insignificant compared to the other elements in the
> Antenna Mounting Structures, and the active elements in the autotuner
> itself. Maybe Lynn, Larry, or maybe even Gary S. can chime in with
> "further Light and Knowledge", on the above issues.
>
> Bruce in alaska
Snicker, snicker, snort, snort!
Old Chief Lynn >> Stay informed about: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna |
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Since: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 213
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article ,
Gary Schafer wrote:
> Well, you know Bruce; with all that air around the horn being heated
> by the RF in close proximity there is bound to be some interference.
> Not to mention the possibility of the horn being resonant and setting
> up self oscillations of its own in the presence of the RF. :>)
>
> Regards
> Gary
Hi Gary, I wasn't sure you were still lurking around the group. Nice
to see ya......
Well, I suppost there is a very minor chance of that, BUT.........
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @ >> Stay informed about: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna |
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External
Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:17:33 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:
>In article ,
> Gary Schafer wrote:
>
>> Well, you know Bruce; with all that air around the horn being heated
>> by the RF in close proximity there is bound to be some interference.
>> Not to mention the possibility of the horn being resonant and setting
>> up self oscillations of its own in the presence of the RF. :>)
>>
>> Regards
>> Gary
>
>Hi Gary, I wasn't sure you were still lurking around the group. Nice
>to see ya......
>
>Well, I suppost there is a very minor chance of that, BUT.........
>
>Bruce in alaska
Hi Bruce,
So minor that you can probably win the lottery 3 times in a row first.
:>)
Still lurking once in awhile.
Regards
Gary >> Stay informed about: Locating Air Horn near SSB whip antenna |
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