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Next: help needed with ford sabre cooling
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Since: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:01 am
Post subject: Hamilton Port Authority
Archived from groups: can>rec>boating (more info?)
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Well its almost the Holly Jolly shopping time,
This email isn't my typical email saying go to my site. First its to
wish all of you Happy and safe holiday's
Second, I would like you to forward this email on to any and all
sailor's or boaters you may know.
For those of you who didn't know, I have for some time been
challenging the Hamilton Port Authority on its conduct, their un-fair
business practices and anti-competition behaviour will and has been
affecting the industry, that is to say in Hamilton there is no
competition , the port Authority won't allow it, for some you would
say "so what" well aside from limiting were and how much you will
spend, telling you what you can and can't do on your and my public
port
What may make matter worse is that The Hamilton Port Authority could
very well take over the Ontario lake area, When you run into problems
with them, don't bother complaining because they are there own
government.
On February 25th, 2005 I am in court with the port over my right to
enter their controlled lands like the Harbour or the marina, they
simple don't want my kind there, and that makes me fighting mad, a
charter challenge for sure!! a law suit? maybe ...but changes at the
port are going to come with your help, so I guess I'm looking for
support, be it by forwarding this email on, sending your comments, or
hey I wouldn't mind the company on the 25th in Hamilton court..
As a boater my right to access our water ways is top of my list, you
might want to make it yours as well.
Also for those of you who want to read more of this topic, you can
pick up Decembers issue of GAM (released prob dec 20th)
MAGAZINE Canada's oldest sailing magazine, see what the editor and
others also say about this issue including my comments here is there
link.
http://www.gamonyachting.com
And as this story unfolds I will post it on my website under HPA Fight
Remember change is a funny thing, kinda happens without you really
noticing it sometimes, and then its to late, but to change things you
wanted changed or think should be changed takes some sort of an
effort, if you succeed in that change there is nothing more
satisfying.
Thanks For your support
Randy Desnoyers
www.yachtware.net |
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External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Good going, Randy. I like a guy that puts his foot down and stands up
for himself. You have a lot more power than you think. I'm not sure
what your situation is, but I wish you the best.
I'm in the process of buying a boat and when I get it, the first thing
I'll do is get it out of registration. Without any registration or
license, they will have no jurisdiction. I also won't be a "boater"
since whatever statute authorizes them probably has a definition for
"boater". Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would want a license
to go sailing anyway!
Good luck!
--
AuntieSpam |
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External
Since: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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AuntieSpam wrote:
....
> I'm in the process of buying a boat and when I get it, the first thing
> I'll do is get it out of registration. Without any registration or
> license, they will have no jurisdiction. I also won't be a "boater"
> since whatever statute authorizes them probably has a definition for
> "boater". Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would want a license
> to go sailing anyway!
Not licensing your boat to avoid laws concerning boats won't work. You
should aquaint yourself with the regulations regarding boating.
Go to <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://boatingincanada.com" target="_blank">http://boatingincanada.com</a> and learn about rules for boat
licensing and registration, operator certificates, mandatory equipment,
radio licenses, radio operator licenses, border issues, alcohol on
board, and 'rules of the road'. From these summaries you will learn that
a boat license is not mandatory for all sailboats -- but you shouldn't
try to enter U.S. waters without one!
--
* BoatingInCanada.com *<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Pat Drummond wrote:
> AuntieSpam wrote:
> ...
>
>> I'm in the process of buying a boat and when I get it, the first thing
>> I'll do is get it out of registration. Without any registration or
>> license, they will have no jurisdiction. I also won't be a "boater"
>> since whatever statute authorizes them probably has a definition for
>> "boater". Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would want a
>> license to go sailing anyway!
>
>
> Not licensing your boat to avoid laws concerning boats won't work. You
> should aquaint yourself with the regulations regarding boating.
>
> Go to <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://boatingincanada.com" target="_blank">http://boatingincanada.com</a> and learn about rules for boat
> licensing and registration, operator certificates, mandatory equipment,
> radio licenses, radio operator licenses, border issues, alcohol on
> board, and 'rules of the road'. From these summaries you will learn that
> a boat license is not mandatory for all sailboats -- but you shouldn't
> try to enter U.S. waters without one!
> --
> * BoatingInCanada.com *
====
This is a very good web site with links to lots of information. Thank
you for pointing it out me.
I haven't researched all the acts yet (though I will over time), but I
did have a look at a licensing application. It's wording leads me to
believe that licensing a boat is absolutely voluntary. I suppose the
real question might be whether or not I have rights to own property,
especially since I would consider my boat to be private property. Maybe
what it takes is for someone to challenge the jurisdiction of whatever
authority mandates licensing to truly uncover the truth.
As an aside, I'm on the coast, which I believe offers different freedoms
than internal waters, but still, I believe the licensing issue is the
same straight across the board.
--
AuntieSpam<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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AuntieSpam wrote:
> haven't researched all the acts yet (though I will over time), but I
> did have a look at a licensing application. It's wording leads me to
> believe that licensing a boat is absolutely voluntary.
Hi!
.... voluntary for boats powered by a 7.5 Kw (10 hp) engine or less...
see:
Small vessel regulation article 7 and 8 at:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/crc1487/sec7%2Ehtml" target="_blank">http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/crc1487/sec7%2Ehtml</a>
then click on next for article 8.
If you're powered by a 9.9 hp engine or less then you're not obligated to do
so.
Jean Dufour
Montreal, Qc<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Thank you. Legalese is code. The Act defines Pleasure Craft as:
"pleasure craft" means a vessel used by an individual for pleasure and
not for a commercial purpose;
"pleasure yacht" [Repealed, 1998, c. 16, s. 1]
This could mean that so long as the boat isn't being used for "pleasure"
or "a commercial purpose", the regs wouldn't apply. It could, for
example, be used to live on. Also, there are different legal
definitions for the words "person" and "individual". Example,
artificial person or natural person. The Bill of Rights, for example
applies only to natural persons, while most Acts apply to artificial
persons, also known as government created entities.
Researching and unraveling exactly what is referred to within Acts is a
task at best. I suspect (suspicion only, at this time) that a joinder
is created when someone signs up for an operator's license or registers
or licenses the boat. What drew me to wonder about this is that the
application I read to license a boat clearly states that the individual
must "apply" for the license and must sign for it. This becomes a
legally binding contractual agreement which can only be done voluntarily
and without duress. I believe that if it were truly mandatory, that the
license would be assigned without making an application and without
having to sign.
If I'm following a dead end hunch and licensing really is mandatory,
then it would fly in the face of the Bill of Rights.
I'll certainly need to go through the Shipping Act and the Regulations
thoroughly and carefully, but it sure would be a boon to hook up with
someone who has already researched this and drawn conclusions.
Jean Dufour wrote:
> AuntieSpam wrote:
>
>
>> haven't researched all the acts yet (though I will over time), but I
>>did have a look at a licensing application. It's wording leads me to
>>believe that licensing a boat is absolutely voluntary.
>
>
> Hi!
>
> ... voluntary for boats powered by a 7.5 Kw (10 hp) engine or less...
>
> see:
>
> Small vessel regulation article 7 and 8 at:
>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/crc1487/sec7%2Ehtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/crc1487/sec7%2Ehtml</font</a>>
>
> then click on next for article 8.
>
> If you're powered by a 9.9 hp engine or less then you're not obligated to do
> so.
>
> Jean Dufour
> Montreal, Qc
>
--
AuntieSpam<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 07, 2003
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 02:36:15 GMT, AuntieSpam <tellnobody RemoveThis @tellus.com>
wrote:
> I suppose the
>real question might be whether or not I have rights to own property,
>especially since I would consider my boat to be private property. Maybe
>what it takes is for someone to challenge the jurisdiction of whatever
>authority mandates licensing to truly uncover the truth.
>
>As an aside, I'm on the coast, which I believe offers different freedoms
>than internal waters, but still, I believe the licensing issue is the
>same straight across the board.
There is nothing in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that
guarantees the right to own property.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jack Dale wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 02:36:15 GMT, AuntieSpam <tellnobody.RemoveThis@tellus.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> I suppose the
>>real question might be whether or not I have rights to own property,
>>especially since I would consider my boat to be private property. Maybe
>>what it takes is for someone to challenge the jurisdiction of whatever
>>authority mandates licensing to truly uncover the truth.
>>
>>As an aside, I'm on the coast, which I believe offers different freedoms
>>than internal waters, but still, I believe the licensing issue is the
>>same straight across the board.
>
>
> There is nothing in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that
> guarantees the right to own property.
>
====
I haven't found any right to own property in the Charter either, but
it's reasonably clear in the Bill of Rights and even clearer in the
British North American Act. The Charter does not replace the Bill of
Rights, nor does it replace our true constitution, the BNA, which was
intended to reflect the Magna Charta (noted in the preamble).
Like all rights, they are for those who demand them.
--
AuntieSpam<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 07, 2003
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:02:33 GMT, AuntieSpam <tellnobody DeleteThis @tellus.com>
wrote:
>>
>====
>I haven't found any right to own property in the Charter either, but
>it's reasonably clear in the Bill of Rights
It was replaced by the Charter. The Bill of Rights had little legal
standing and could be overruled easily, e.g., The War Measures Act.
> and even clearer in the
>British North American Act.
Where?
> The Charter does not replace the Bill of
>Rights, nor does it replace our true constitution, the BNA, which was
>intended to reflect the Magna Charta (noted in the preamble).
The Magna Carta was a power grab by John's barons. The references to
property are related to feudal property.
Remember that our Charter rights are subject "to such reasonable
limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free
and democratic society."
You really must license or registered if your engine is 10 hp or
more. (http://www.tc.gc.ca/BoatingSafety/sbg-gsn/markings.htm)
If you choose to follow your course of action, you will definitely
have problems if you wish to take your boat to the US for a visit.
Jack
__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.swiftsuresailing.com" target="_blank">http://www.swiftsuresailing.com</a>
__________________________________________________<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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AuntieSpam wrote:
> If I'm following a dead end hunch and licensing really is mandatory,
> then it would fly in the face of the Bill of Rights.
>
> AuntieSpam
Then what about driver's licences and licence plates on cars?
:-O
Jean Dufour
Montreal, Qc<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jean Dufour wrote:
> AuntieSpam wrote:
>>If I'm following a dead end hunch and licensing really is mandatory,
>>then it would fly in the face of the Bill of Rights.
>
> Then what about driver's licences and licence plates on cars?
>
> :-O
>
> Jean Dufour
> Montreal, Qc
Yes, indeed! A moot point whether it's mandatory or not (I believe it
is if your boat falls into the right category). In the current
atmosphere of heightened security and policing, I wouldn't go boating
without all the licenses, cards, safety equipment, permits and
environmental stickers I could get my hands on.
--
* <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://BoatinginCanada.com" target="_blank">http://BoatinginCanada.com</a> *<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Hamilton Port Authority [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jean Dufour wrote:
> AuntieSpam wrote:
>
>>If I'm following a dead end hunch and licensing really is mandatory,
>>then it would fly in the face of the Bill of Rights.
>>
>>AuntieSpam
>
>
> Then what about driver's licences and licence plates on cars?
====
What about them? You still have to apply for and sign for these. From
what I understand, it's done voluntarily. It's important to be able to
differentiate between legal entities and natural entities. Once you
register something, you enter into a contract where you become the
registered owner and, by your agreement, are bound to the laws governing
registered owners. Same goes for drivers. To help make it a sticky
point, whatever vehicle you're driving came with a Manufacture's
Statement of Origin (MSR) which you never actually see. This is
tantamount to the vehicle being registered before you make the purchase.
When you buy it, you are simply transferring ownership, not actually
owning it outright.
In other words, you are in the scheme and must play by the rules.
However, if you are mechanically inclined and are able to build your own
motor vehicle from scratch, it would be my contention that you would be
able to drive it on the street with no paperwork so long as you did it
without a Driver's License. By doing so, you would have no joinder to
the statutes governing registered motor vehicles and drivers. You might
get harassed by police officers, but at the end of the day, you would be
right. The question is, "how thick is your skin?"
--
AuntieSpam<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Hamilton Port Authority |
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