Greenland paddle, varnish or not

spamsux DeleteThis @yomomma.com wrote:
 > I have just about completed carving my Greenland style paddle. I am trying
 > to decide if I should varnish it or not. Any suggestions?

I've experimented with a few finishes and I'm not fond of varnish. It
creates a very slippery surface. Even if you degloss it with Scotchbrite
or steel wool, it polishes in use and becomes slippery again. When it
gets damaged - and it WILL get damaged - water will seep in and become
trapped, encouraging.

Oils on the other hand, create a very soft finish. It feels good in the
hand, but it wears off rapidly, requiring fairly frequent
re-application. Oil finishes allow the wood to breathe, so moisture that
gets through isn't trapped.

My personal favorite finish is a 1:1:1 blend of tung oil (the real
stuff, not a "tung oil finish" product), varnish and turpentine. It
penetrates well, provides the same soft look and feel of an oil finish,
but it's more durable. If you can't find 100% tung oil or don't like the
price, you can substitute boiled linseed oil, which is inexpensive and
available almost anywhere. You can use any oil based exterior varnish in
the mix. I use turpentine as a thinner, simply because I like the smell
better than mineral spirits. Either will do the job.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not 

I'd varnish the blades and oil the shaft. Protecting the edges with 3
coats of epoxy or polyester resin is a good idea. Epxoy can be purchased
in small twin tubes as "household adhesive" at your local discount
hardware department for under $5. Otherwise it's pricey. Polyester can be
bought in pints or half pints in the body repair section of you local
discount auto parts department. The last I bought ws a quart for $14. Next
best would be to put extra layers of polyurethane plastic varnish along the
edges.

Varnish will keep water, which can add weigth, from soaking into the
blades better, and the oil will keep the shaft "textured" which helps
prevent blisters which a smooth varnish can cause. If you decide to
varnish the shaft use a non-gloss finish or lightly sand after the varnish
has dried for 3 days or more. A traditional oil is 1/2 linseed and 1/2
volatile solvent, kerosene in the old days but any paint thinner will do.
The solvent helps the oil penetrate the wood grain and then it evaporates
off, just like it does in oil based pints and varnishes. Linseed oil is
the oil used in oil paints and its cheaper than paint. Kerosene was used
to kill any fungus in the wood which could cause rot on wooden boats,
maybe paint thinner does too but it's not an issue with a kayak shaft
which gets plenty of ventilation.

It would be interesting to weigh the paddle at various times during the
season to see if it is absorbing moisture and gaining weight.

"spamsux@yomomma.com" (spam_sux@yomomma.com) writes:
 > I have just about completed carving my Greenland style paddle. I am trying
 > to decide if I should varnish it or not. Any suggestions?
 >
 > Kristopher
 >
 >


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</a>
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not 

William R. Watt (ag384@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
 > I'd varnish the blades and oil the shaft. Protecting the edges with 3

Just to add that I oil the home made spruce spars for my sail boats with a
rag soaked in ordinary cooking oil (old jug of corn oil I stopped using
for cooking in favour of canola oil). This works fine. If you don't want
to buy special oils it would be fine for the shaft of the paddle which is
not in the water.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</a>
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not 

ag384.DeleteThis@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (William R. Watt) wrote in
news:ch772d$d5o$1@freenet9.carleton.ca:

 >
 > William R. Watt (ag384@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
  >> I'd varnish the blades and oil the shaft. Protecting the edges with 3
 >
 > Just to add that I oil the home made spruce spars for my sail boats
 > with a rag soaked in ordinary cooking oil (old jug of corn oil I
 > stopped using for cooking in favour of canola oil). This works fine. If
 > you don't want to buy special oils it would be fine for the shaft of
 > the paddle which is not in the water.

Obviously you've never actually paddled with a greenland paddle because, the
paddle shaft (to be more accurate, the loom) does spend a considerable
amount of time in the water when it's used as it was intended for braces,
rolling, and when in an extended paddle position.

A quart of boiled linseed oil runs about $7. A quart of mazola corn oil is
about $5.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not 

John Fereira (jaf30@cornell.edu) writes:

 > A quart of boiled linseed oil runs about $7. A quart of mazola corn oil is
 > about $5.

You'd go out and buy a quart of linseed oil to use a couple ounces on a
paddle sahft when you could just reach into your kitchen cupboard for a
couple ounces of cooking oil you already paid for? Chances are you'd
already have paint thinner on hand to thin out the linseed oil. If not,
you'd have to buy a quart of that too. That's the only reason I suggested
cooking oil.

You're correct that I haven't made or even used a Greenland kayak paddle.
The only kayak paddle I made has aluminum blades which didn't need any
finish and stand up better to wear than red cedar. I did refurbish an old
ash canoe paddle on which I epoxied the edges of the blade because I had
some epoxy on hand, varnished the blade with polyurethane because I had
some polyurethane varnish on hand (which I had purchased for 25 cents at a
garage sale), and oiled the shaft with linseed oil because I had some of
that and some paint thinner on hand. (You can buy linseeds, aka flax seed,
at a health food store and make your own linseed oil, and some day I might
try it to see if it's cheaper.) If you have to go out and buy all that
stuff retail just to finish one Greenalnd paddle it can more than double
the cost of the paddle considering a piece of red cedar doesn't cost much.
I have lots of red cedar on hand salvaged from the floorboards of a
backyard patio deck when I refloored it. I've cut up that red cear for
gunwales, chines, thwarts, a sprit and all kinds of things boaty. There's
nothing like making a paddle, or a whole boat, for free and I encourage
every paddle maker and boatbuilder to try it.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</a>
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not 

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. The paddle is a nice clear piece of
pine. I have plenty of epoxy around from building the rest of the boat. I
will probably varnish up to the looms, after I try the paddle out for a
while and make sure it fits well.

Kristopher
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not 

On 3-Sep-2004, ag384 RemoveThis @FreeNet.Carleton.CA (William R. Watt) wrote:

 > You'd go out and buy a quart of linseed oil to use a couple ounces on a
 > paddle sahft when you could just reach into your kitchen cupboard for a
 > couple ounces of cooking oil you already paid for?

Linseed oil polymerizes. Cooking oil goes rancid. Which is the better
deal?

BTW, tung oil is better than linseed oil if you're putting something in
the water all the time.

Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not 

"Michael Daly" (michaelDaly@foo.bar) writes:

 > Linseed oil polymerizes. Cooking oil goes rancid. Which is the better
 > deal?

I haven't noticed any smell on the spars I've treated with cooking oil.
You might want to avoid cooking oil if you leave your paddles where
animals might get at them. But then you'd want to wash the salty
perperation off the shaft as well. I've seen a wooden paddle with the
shaft gnawed and boats with the seats gnawed out of them by porqupines for
the bum persperation salt.

 >
 > BTW, tung oil is better than linseed oil if you're putting something in
 > the water all the time.

I did recommend varnishing the blades. I suspect kayak paddles spend 99.9%
of the time in somebody's closet.

Hell, my grandfather used to rub beaver fat into his boots and they were in
the water a lot. I've not tried beaver fat on paddle shafts. I don't know
if they have beaver in Greenland. It might not be traditional there.



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</a>
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not 

William R. Watt wrote:
 > John Fereira (jaf30@cornell.edu) writes:
 >
  >>A quart of boiled linseed oil runs about $7. A quart of mazola corn oil is
  >>about $5.
 >
 > You'd go out and buy a quart of linseed oil to use a couple ounces on a
 > paddle sahft when you could just reach into your kitchen cupboard for a
 > couple ounces of cooking oil you already paid for? Chances are you'd
 > already have paint thinner on hand to thin out the linseed oil. If not,
 > you'd have to buy a quart of that too. That's the only reason I suggested
 > cooking oil.

Corn oil doesn't cure, it just soaks the wood, goes rancid and stinks.
It provides virtually no protection and is not a useful wood finish.

 > You can buy linseeds, aka flax seed,
 > at a health food store and make your own linseed oil, and some day I might
 > try it to see if it's cheaper.

You'd also need to buy some Japan Drier to add to it, unless you want to
wait weeks for it to cure. That would cost as much as buying boiled
linseed oil off the shelf. Raw linseed oil is not a good wood finish.

 > If you have to go out and buy all that
 > stuff retail just to finish one Greenalnd paddle it can more than double
 > the cost of the paddle considering a piece of red cedar doesn't cost much.

True, but you'll have plenty left over for other projects. Greenland
paddles are sort of like potato chips, you can't make just one.

Regarding epoxy, you can buy a quart kit of Everfix epoxy for $20 at
Home Depot, which is a bargain compared to what you pay for tubes. It
has a long shelf life, so it will still be usable when you need it in
the future.

Polyester resin is fine for laminating fiberglass, but it's a very poor
substitute for epoxy when you're working on wooden paddles. It's not an
adhesive and it's nowhere near as strong as epoxy.

 > I have lots of red cedar on hand salvaged from the floorboards of a
 > backyard patio deck when I refloored it. I've cut up that red cear for
 > gunwales, chines, thwarts, a sprit and all kinds of things boaty. There's
 > nothing like making a paddle, or a whole boat, for free and I encourage
 > every paddle maker and boatbuilder to try it.

Recycling materials is great, if you have access to them. Most of us
aren't as fortunate as you in that regard.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Greenland paddle, varnish or not