Welcome to BoatingForumz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Full and fine ended hull

 
   Boating Forums (Home) -> Boat Building RSS
Next:  RO - what did you use for a pressure regulator va..  
Author Message
Pablo2

External


Since: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:56 am
Post subject: Full and fine ended hull
Archived from groups: rec>boats>building (more info?)

Hi,

I would like to know what is the difference geometrically between a full
ended and a fine ended hull? I was reading the John Winter's webpage
(http://www.greenval.com/jwinters.html#technical%20articles) Part1
(Frictional resistance) in the effect of shape section and could not
understand what was the difference between these two types of hull. If you
have an image that could help me understand it would be great. Thanks for
your help in advance.

Pablo
remove213 for mail

 >> Stay informed about: Full and fine ended hull 
Back to top
Login to vote
sour

External


Since: Sep 08, 2003
Posts: 13



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:42 am
Post subject: Re: Full and fine ended hull [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:56:48 -0500, "Pablo"
<pablo_vasquez213.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

 >Hi,
 >
 > I would like to know what is the difference geometrically between a full
 >ended and a fine ended hull? I was reading the John Winter's webpage
 >(http://www.greenval.com/jwinters.html#technical%20articles) Part1
 >(Frictional resistance) in the effect of shape section and could not
 >understand what was the difference between these two types of hull. If you
 >have an image that could help me understand it would be great. Thanks for
 >your help in advance.
 >
 >Pablo
 >remove213 for mail
 >

A fine ended boat has a fine angle of entry and exit - meaning the bow
and stern, the ends, are pointy.
A full-ended boat has a wider angle, which means the ends are stubby.
That's all.

-m<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

 >> Stay informed about: Full and fine ended hull 
Back to top
Login to vote
stevej

External


Since: Oct 19, 2003
Posts: 8



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Full and fine ended hull [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

As an amatuer boat builder, not having been properly schooled in the
mathamatics of nautical architecture, I would offer the idea that,
in general, a full ended hull would have a "U" shape to the cross
section at or near the waterline entry point and a fine ended hull would
have a sectional shape that is "V" shaped at the waterline entry.
The relationship of the sectional area at the waterline entry to the
flair and/or fullness of the bow is something that has provided me with
countless hours of thought and speculation. To reduce it to a numerical
quantity would seem to take the fun out of it.(just my approach)
I have been particularly intrigued with the effect
that these shapes have in controlling bow lift and boyancy and the
effect of throwing off spray with small boats...canoes, kayaks, etc.
The bow shapes of several of the designs of L.F. Herreshoff seem to have
mastered this effect and his balancing of fineness and flair at the bow
apparently work very well for the particular conditions designed for.
If you have access to the book "Sensible Cruising Designs" , look at
design number 98,"Rozinante" and design number 101"White Water Racing
Canoe" to see two variations on this idea.

Pablo wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > I would like to know what is the difference geometrically between a full
 > ended and a fine ended hull? I was reading the John Winter's webpage
 > (http://www.greenval.com/jwinters.html#technical%20articles) Part1
 > (Frictional resistance) in the effect of shape section and could not
 > understand what was the difference between these two types of hull. If you
 > have an image that could help me understand it would be great. Thanks for
 > your help in advance.
 >
 > Pablo
 > remove213 for mail
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Full and fine ended hull 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jim Woodward

External


Since: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 63



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:58 am
Post subject: Re: Full and fine ended hull [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

The best single look at the fine/fullness of a hull is by calculating
the prismatic coefficient. This is a little complicated, so hang on:

a) determine the area of the largest midship section of the boat.
Multiply this by the waterline length. This gives you the volume the
boat would displace if it were as full as possible -- no taper at all,
bow or stern.

b) take the actual displacement volume -- usually you can get this by
dividing actual weight (not registry tons) by the weight of seawater
in the same units (64 pounds per cubic foot or 1025 kg per cubic
meter)

Divide a/b and you get a percentage. The naval architecture books
will tell you what the ideal prismatic coefficient is for boats at
each speed. It typically runs around 54% in displacement boats in the
size we usually talk about here.

Fintry's PC is 58.6%, a little larger because she's a little larger
boat. During our search for Fintry we turned down one boat,
Flintstone, primarily because her PC was very high. She was very
spacious, but would have had very high fuel consumption and been
uncomfortable. see <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mvfintry.com/boatsnotbought.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mvfintry.com/boatsnotbought.htm</a>

Steve's comments about "U" and "V" shape are only half the story --
you have to look at the plan (top) view as well as cross sections.

Jim Woodward
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mvFintry.com" target="_blank">www.mvFintry.com</a>


stevej <vtboat RemoveThis @sover.net> wrote in message news:<3F9FE79F.2000504 RemoveThis @sover.net>...
 > As an amatuer boat builder, not having been properly schooled in the
 > mathamatics of nautical architecture, I would offer the idea that,
 > in general, a full ended hull would have a "U" shape to the cross
 > section at or near the waterline entry point and a fine ended hull would
 > have a sectional shape that is "V" shaped at the waterline entry.
 > The relationship of the sectional area at the waterline entry to the
 > flair and/or fullness of the bow is something that has provided me with
 > countless hours of thought and speculation. To reduce it to a numerical
 > quantity would seem to take the fun out of it.(just my approach)
 > I have been particularly intrigued with the effect
 > that these shapes have in controlling bow lift and boyancy and the
 > effect of throwing off spray with small boats...canoes, kayaks, etc.
 > The bow shapes of several of the designs of L.F. Herreshoff seem to have
 > mastered this effect and his balancing of fineness and flair at the bow
 > apparently work very well for the particular conditions designed for.
 > If you have access to the book "Sensible Cruising Designs" , look at
 > design number 98,"Rozinante" and design number 101"White Water Racing
 > Canoe" to see two variations on this idea.
 >
 > Pablo wrote:
  > > Hi,
  > >
  > > I would like to know what is the difference geometrically between a full
  > > ended and a fine ended hull? I was reading the John Winter's webpage
  > > (http://www.greenval.com/jwinters.html#technical%20articles) Part1
  > > (Frictional resistance) in the effect of shape section and could not
  > > understand what was the difference between these two types of hull. If you
  > > have an image that could help me understand it would be great. Thanks for
  > > your help in advance.
  > >
  > > Pablo
  > > remove213 for mail
  > >
  > ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Full and fine ended hull 
Back to top
Login to vote
Pablo2

External


Since: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 4



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:54 am
Post subject: Re: Full and fine ended hull [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Thanks for the answer, I really appreciate it.

Pablo,
"Pablo" <pablo_vasquez213 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:70Gnb.53137$He4.1510681@wagner.videotron.net...
 > Hi,
 >
 > I would like to know what is the difference geometrically between a
full
 > ended and a fine ended hull? I was reading the John Winter's webpage
 > (http://www.greenval.com/jwinters.html#technical%20articles) Part1
 > (Frictional resistance) in the effect of shape section and could not
 > understand what was the difference between these two types of hull. If you
 > have an image that could help me understand it would be great. Thanks for
 > your help in advance.
 >
 > Pablo
 > remove213 for mail
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Full and fine ended hull 
Back to top
Login to vote
stevej1

External


Since: Nov 18, 2003
Posts: 12



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:48 am
Post subject: Re: Full and fine ended hull [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jim Woodward wrote:
 > Steve's comments about "U" and "V" shape are only half the story --
 > you have to look at the plan (top) view as well as cross sections.

I agree. The request was for an "image" though.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Full and fine ended hull 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
Bartenders, the double ended, planing type. - Anyone ever owned one, built one or whatever? Been very interested in them for years, and saw one on the slip at work a couple of months ago, now I am thinking about building one. Just looking for opinions on the boats. Andrew.

Steel Boat Double Ended Transon Hung Rudder Conversion - Can anyone point me to any articles/pictures of double ended yachts, that have wheel steering installed. I want to convert my Gypsy Rover from tiller to wheel steering.. I have something rigged up already but its a big agricultural, so I am looking for....

Keel full of Oil - Hi Looked at a 30 foot steel sailboat with full keel the other day. One item I am pondering is the Keel Ballsat. This particular is boat has her Kell filled with some type of oil. Great for corrosion resistance but what about other considerations like...

Anyone know about where the center of rotation is on a ful.. - Does anyone know about where from bow to stern the center of rotation is on a full keel power cruiser or sailboat? I've heard it's as far forward as 1/3 from the bow....my boat behaves differently. I'm interested in what the architects think,..

350 V8 penta engine full of water after winter (Won't move) - Hello, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for me. I have a bayliner that I bought with a rebuilt motor, however, the old owner left the distributor out of the engine and the cover off over the winter and the motor filled with water. I was able...
   Boating Forums (Home) -> Boat Building All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Page 1 of 1

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]