Fiberglassing my daggerboard?

John Smith wrote:
> "Tom Dacon" <Tom-.DeleteThis@t-dacons.com> wrote in message
> > The reason people used to add lead to centerboards and daggerboards was
> just
> > to counteract the buoyancy of the wood, and to keep them from floating up
> in
> > the slot.
> >
> Well, there's that too; it does tend to float up a 2 or 3 inches unless the
> side pressure is enough to keep it down.

I had a Sailfish that had a short piece of rope that you would secure
over the top of the daggerboard to keep it from floating up. I also
don't think what you propose with thw lead would show any results
comparable to the effort.Sam
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

"Tom Dacon" <Tom-.RemoveThis@t-dacons.com> wrote in message
news:11gvmghnkon5r5f@corp.supernews.com...
> A few pounds of lead added to to your daggerboard on a 13' boat will not
> make any significant difference in stability. Hiking out about a
> quarter-inch farther will do more for the boat's stability than any
> reasonable amount of lead would do.
>
> The reason people used to add lead to centerboards and daggerboards was
just
> to counteract the buoyancy of the wood, and to keep them from floating up
in
> the slot.
>
Well, there's that too; it does tend to float up a 2 or 3 inches unless the
side pressure is enough to keep it down.

> If you want to do something more useful, shape the daggerboard into a
really
> accurate NACA foil cross-section. Do the same with your rudder. If the
> cross-section of those two foils is kind of crude now, you'll be amazed at
> the difference.
>
Thats one thing I will say for the boat; both daggerboard and rudder have
great cross-sections. Don't know why it (Starwing) was a failure; the
workmanship is very good..
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

>
> What does the Starwing weigh?

Starwing is a completely different animal. It has a lot of sail (the number
escapes me at the moment) for a boat it's size, with a main and jib. It is
very narrow at the water line, but then swells out broadly above (I figure
that is the "wing"). The wood is all mahagony, and everything is done very
nicely. The fiberglass is very thin, and the boat is light.

At least it was until I "fixed" it. I got it really cheap because it had
cracks in both sides from rough trailering. Since I don't plan on
trailering it ever, I put some fiberglass over the cracks and it is fine
now; if a bit heavier.
Frankly though, I am not much of a sailor, and I couldn't handle it in winds
over 5mph; it was just too responsive and would capsize in a gust before I
knew what happened. It is much better now with a few pounds of new
fiberglass.

However, last week I took it out in 10-15 winds, but headed home when the
winds picked up. Before I could get home a huge gust too it over, despite
my hiking out as far as I could go. I am hoping some weight in the
daggerboard will add a small cushion.
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

On rec.woodworking, I asked about how to drill the holes parallel to the
sides. Someone suggested going in with a hole saw through the sides. That
will weaken the board, but done down low where there is no torque, that
should not matter; expecially if I go over it with fiberglass. And I could
get in more lead.
I suppose my concern there would be after a capsize, when I pulling down on
the board to get the boat back up I would be putting a lot of force on a
weakened area. Hmm..

I know I can't get in enough weight to make it self-righting or anything
like that, but just giving me a little more time to react to gusts would be
nice.
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

A piece of shock cord from the top of the daggerboard forward and down to
some point on the boat will keep it from floating up in the slot.

Letting out the mainsheet to dump wind will do more for stability than
adding lead to the daggerboard.

Can you reef the sail? Can you add reef points to the sail? Can you wrap
some sail around the mast? Reducing the size of the sail will reduce its
power.

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 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

The lead won't help at all.
You have to mold the bottom two-thirds of the board in lead to even feel
a difference, and would not stop a knock down like you describe. It
would make the boat take on roughly twice the added ballast weight
(assumption of typical dingy/daysailor) in water to unload when you try
to right it.

Learn to sail the boat with just enough grip on the main to keep it
trim. Don't lock is down ever. When the wind hits let the main flog
and sail on the jib hold maintain control. That is what you do with
every other "too much sail" dink (the list is long).

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Pathological Sailor
(of Scotts, Interlakes, Lightnings, Interclub dingys, Sailfish
[not-Sun], Rebels and many other classes)


Toller wrote:
>>What does the Starwing weigh?
>
>
> Starwing is a completely different animal. It has a lot of sail (the number
> escapes me at the moment) for a boat it's size, with a main and jib. It is
> very narrow at the water line, but then swells out broadly above (I figure
> that is the "wing"). The wood is all mahagony, and everything is done very
> nicely. The fiberglass is very thin, and the boat is light.
>
> At least it was until I "fixed" it. I got it really cheap because it had
> cracks in both sides from rough trailering. Since I don't plan on
> trailering it ever, I put some fiberglass over the cracks and it is fine
> now; if a bit heavier.
> Frankly though, I am not much of a sailor, and I couldn't handle it in winds
> over 5mph; it was just too responsive and would capsize in a gust before I
> knew what happened. It is much better now with a few pounds of new
> fiberglass.
>
> However, last week I took it out in 10-15 winds, but headed home when the
> winds picked up. Before I could get home a huge gust too it over, despite
> my hiking out as far as I could go. I am hoping some weight in the
> daggerboard will add a small cushion.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

William,

He doesn't stand a snowball's chance.

The boat carries a jib, so he can't do that trick at all. Not to
mention that pulling a reef in under in a small boat just isn't going to
happen (experience speaking here).

He need to learn to dump the main strap in the jib in and head up under
the weather breaks.

Matt Colie

William R. Watt wrote:

> A piece of shock cord from the top of the daggerboard forward and down to
> some point on the boat will keep it from floating up in the slot.
>
> Letting out the mainsheet to dump wind will do more for stability than
> adding lead to the daggerboard.
>
> Can you reef the sail? Can you add reef points to the sail? Can you wrap
> some sail around the mast? Reducing the size of the sail will reduce its
> power.
>
> --
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> William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
> homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
> warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

> DO NOT TAKE YOUR HAND OFF THE TILLER. Heading up in a gust depowers the
> sail. (And gains distance to windward when beating.)
>
> Reducing sail makes life easier, but if you have the sheet free and are
> ready to head up with a quick twitch of the tiller, you can unload
> instantly. Hiking out is good for boat speed, but not required to avoid a
> capsize.

by "heading up" he means pushing the tiller away from you as if you were
tacking.


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 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

I was under the impression, suggested by 2 experiences, that the jib
alone was sort of a mistake as it moved the center of effort (of the
sails) in front of the centerboard and counteracted the rudder giving
the opposite of weather helm, which is the tendency of the boat to turn
into the wind when the rudder is let loose. As to the original post of
adding lead to make the boat less tippy, if you made the whole
centerboard out of lead, that might help, but I think what would serve
you better is to pay more attention to the ripples indicating gusts of
wind and to be alert and move quickly as small sailboats are tender.
You adjusting to it will probably be more worthwhile than adjusting it
to you. One thing you might possibly do though is install a foot strap
to give you more control while hiking in and out. Sam
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

"Matt Colie" <mcolie DeleteThis @netspam.net> wrote in message
news:JS6Qe.9508$WO2.9322@fe06.lga...
> William,
>
> He doesn't stand a snowball's chance.
>
> The boat carries a jib, so he can't do that trick at all. Not to
> mention that pulling a reef in under in a small boat just isn't going to
> happen (experience speaking here).
>
> He need to learn to dump the main strap in the jib in and head up under
> the weather breaks.
>
What does that mean? In retrospect I probably could have dropped the main
and sailed home with just the jib.

> Matt Colie
>
> William R. Watt wrote:
>
> > A piece of shock cord from the top of the daggerboard forward and down
to
> > some point on the boat will keep it from floating up in the slot.
> >
> > Letting out the mainsheet to dump wind will do more for stability than
> > adding lead to the daggerboard.
> >
The main was out almost to the point of fluttering when it happened.
Perhaps there was a wind shift with the gust; that is pretty common here.

> > Can you reef the sail? Can you add reef points to the sail? Can you wrap
> > some sail around the mast? Reducing the size of the sail will reduce its
> > power.
> >
The sail has reef points, but I don't go out when the wind is that strong,
and there is no way to reef it if the wind picks up.
> > --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community
network
> > homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
> > warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's
returned
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

Toller,

I'm glad you asked.

I was telling Willian, that there is no chance you, I or anyone I've
ever known could reef a little boat under deteriorating conditions.
The wrap the mast trick used on a few small boats can't work because the
head stray will prevent a smooth wrap of the mast.

And - Yes this is a skil you should learn.
If you run (release) the main halyard, the boom will fall and the sail
will be loose. This is not a workable situation. If you can maintain
way enough for control, you will not be able to bring the boat about.
The mainsail will end up overboard and that will stop you pretty fast.
You may also get beat up by the boom and sail trashing around on top
of you.

Your thought - though - is mostly correct, but unload the main by
running (releasing) the sheet (yes - the main will get flogged - sorry).
You might also trim the jib about as flat as you can to carry you as
close to the wind as possible. We are talking about little boat
survival sailing here and style points don't count until you are safe.
It is important that you maintain enough headway to have control of the
boat, because as soon as you do not have control the weather will.

You DO want to run into the wind. It is less likely to get you into
trouble because you can go back during the lulls.

Enjoy the boat, I'm here a lot if I can help at all

Matt Colie


Toller wrote:
> "Matt Colie" <mcolie.TakeThisOut@netspam.net> wrote in message
> news:JS6Qe.9508$WO2.9322@fe06.lga...
>
>>William,
>>
>>He doesn't stand a snowball's chance.
>>
>>The boat carries a jib, so he can't do that trick at all. Not to
>>mention that pulling a reef in under in a small boat just isn't going to
>>happen (experience speaking here).
>>
>>He need to learn to dump the main strap in the jib in and head up under
>>the weather breaks.
>>
>
> What does that mean? In retrospect I probably could have dropped the main
> and sailed home with just the jib.
>
>
>>Matt Colie
>>
>>William R. Watt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A piece of shock cord from the top of the daggerboard forward and down
>
> to
>
>>>some point on the boat will keep it from floating up in the slot.
>>>
>>>Letting out the mainsheet to dump wind will do more for stability than
>>>adding lead to the daggerboard.
>>>
>
> The main was out almost to the point of fluttering when it happened.
> Perhaps there was a wind shift with the gust; that is pretty common here.
>
>
>>>Can you reef the sail? Can you add reef points to the sail? Can you wrap
>>>some sail around the mast? Reducing the size of the sail will reduce its
>>>power.
>>>
>
> The sail has reef points, but I don't go out when the wind is that strong,
> and there is no way to reef it if the wind picks up.
>
>>>--
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----
>
>>>William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community
>
> network
>
>>>homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
>>>warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's
>
> returned
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

The time to reef is before the wind gets too strong. Think of it as
defensive driving. You can sit hove to while reefing. To heave to backwind
the jib and push the tiller right out away from you.

I too think its a better idea to drop the main rather than the jib to
reduce sail in strong wind. That's because the mast is held up by the jib.
There is usually also a forestay but it may only be there to hold the mast up
when not sailing. Sometimes it's strong enough to allow sailing with the
mainsail alone in strong winds but I've seen dingy's where the bottom of a
steel cable forestay is only tied to the boat with a bit of string.
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 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard? 

William R. Watt (ag384@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> The time to reef is before the wind gets too strong. Think of it as
> defensive driving. You can sit hove to while reefing. To heave to backwind
> the jib and push the tiller right out away from you.

BTW these are good things to practice when out for a pleasure sail. For
reefing you can try it with the boat in shallow water or tied to a dock
first. The reef points will probably tie underneath the boom. Sail the boat
with the sail reefed a few times to get used to it. Then sail the boat
reefed at the begining of each season as a refresher. Besides the winds
are usually stronger at the beginning of the season.

You can heave a boat to anytime to clean up, make adjustments, or just to
relax and have a snack. Whole dingy fleets sit hove to waiting for enough
wind to start races at regattas. I've done that, joining others swimming
off their boats while waiting.

You should also learn to tie all your sailor knots one-handed, eyes closed,
while someone tosses buckets of water in your face.
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 >> Stay informed about: Fiberglassing my daggerboard?