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Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1)

 
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Jason10

External


Since: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 9



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:40 pm
Post subject: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1)
Archived from groups: rec>boats>building (more info?)

Hello all.

I had a few questions.
We just bought a 1973 Carver Mariner 28' flybridge sedan made of
mahogany on the hull and teak in the cabin. I was wondering if anyone
could help me out.

Here goes....

I was wondering if it is possible to strip down the paint from the
waterline and downwards to apply fiberglassing (cloth??, tape??) to
protect the hull from damage and to make the wood last longer. my
concern is of rot and such. will applying this fiberglass not allow
the wood to "breath" or could it hurt my boat in any way??

I'd like to hear any suggestions.

If its okay to fiberglass from the waterline down, could anyone
suggest how much epoxy to buy to do one or two coats and how big and
how much fiberglass cloth to use to do it?
This will be my first time using fiberglass and stuff on a boat,
actually this is my first boat.

Please any help would be appreciated including how to go about doing
this and where to find cheap fiberglass and epoxy in canada (I live in
Kitchener Ontario).
I've attached a photo of the boat so that you can get an idea of what
im working with, and can send more if anyone's interested.

The length of the boat is 28' and the breath is 10'2"

I also would like to know about which kind of paint to use, i have
heard of using high grade marine paint or antifouling paint. which
one do i use or do i use the marine and then the last coat
antifouling?

These are some of the issues i am worried about and would appreciate
any help, thank you very much.
-Jason.

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Glenn Ashmore

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Since: Apr 20, 2004
Posts: 96



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I know how to estimate your glass requirements but it would be immoral
to tell you.

I will repeat: Fiberglass sheathing an older carvel planked hull is a
sure way to a quick death. It should only be done to squeeze an extra
few years out of a hull that is unsalvageable otherwise.

If you want advice from the real experts, sign into the Woodenboat
Magazine repair forum at http://www.woodenboat.com/ and ask. 90% of
those guys restore classic wooden boats. Some have several hulls under
their belts and know what they are doing. You will definitely get some
responses. That question is like waving a red flag at a bull on that forum.

As to the paint: Marine topsides paints should never be applied below
the waterline. A high quality anti-fouling bottom paint is made for
that. There are many on the market with various formulations. Some
work better in warm water and others in cold. It is best to ask around
your marina/boatyard and find out which brand works best in your area.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

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Matt Langenfeld2

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Since: Apr 28, 2004
Posts: 76



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

ok let's not jump this guy and tell him he's wrong for wanting to do
this project until he has a chance to better describe his situation.

We could all be wrong here.



Glenn Ashmore wrote:
 > I know how to estimate your glass requirements but it would be immoral
 > to tell you.
 >
 > I will repeat: Fiberglass sheathing an older carvel planked hull is a
 > sure way to a quick death. It should only be done to squeeze an extra
 > few years out of a hull that is unsalvageable otherwise.
 >
 > If you want advice from the real experts, sign into the Woodenboat
 > Magazine repair forum at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.woodenboat.com/" target="_blank">http://www.woodenboat.com/</a> and ask. 90% of
 > those guys restore classic wooden boats. Some have several hulls under
 > their belts and know what they are doing. You will definitely get some
 > responses. That question is like waving a red flag at a bull on that
 > forum.
 >
 > As to the paint: Marine topsides paints should never be applied below
 > the waterline. A high quality anti-fouling bottom paint is made for
 > that. There are many on the market with various formulations. Some
 > work better in warm water and others in cold. It is best to ask around
 > your marina/boatyard and find out which brand works best in your area.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Glenn Ashmore

External


Since: Apr 20, 2004
Posts: 96



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

He has made two posts asking the same question. He did not say the
bottom was rotting or in need of major repairs. Just that he wanted to
"protect" it. He didn't listen the first time so I figured a bit
stronger language was called for.

Matt Langenfeld wrote:
 > ok let's not jump this guy and tell him he's wrong for wanting to do
 > this project until he has a chance to better describe his situation.
 >
 > We could all be wrong here.
 >
 >
 >
 > Glenn Ashmore wrote:
 >
  >> I know how to estimate your glass requirements but it would be immoral
  >> to tell you.
  >>
  >> I will repeat: Fiberglass sheathing an older carvel planked hull is a
  >> sure way to a quick death. It should only be done to squeeze an extra
  >> few years out of a hull that is unsalvageable otherwise.
  >>
  >> If you want advice from the real experts, sign into the Woodenboat
  >> Magazine repair forum at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.woodenboat.com/" target="_blank">http://www.woodenboat.com/</a> and ask. 90% of
  >> those guys restore classic wooden boats. Some have several hulls
  >> under their belts and know what they are doing. You will definitely
  >> get some responses. That question is like waving a red flag at a bull
  >> on that forum.
  >>
  >> As to the paint: Marine topsides paints should never be applied below
  >> the waterline. A high quality anti-fouling bottom paint is made for
  >> that. There are many on the market with various formulations. Some
  >> work better in warm water and others in cold. It is best to ask
  >> around your marina/boatyard and find out which brand works best in
  >> your area.
  >>
 >

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</a>
Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Jason10

External


Since: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 9



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Actually, that advice was just what i was looking for. i wasn't even
sure if i could do it but you answered my questions correctly. the
reason i posted twice is because the first message i posted like 15
hours before the second but it still didn't show up on my newsreader
so i thought that it didnt go through.
Anyways guys, thanks for the advice, ill replace any rotten planks i
see on the hull after sanding and stuff before using antifouling paint
and caulking.

Much Obliged
-Jay.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:58:20 -0400, Glenn Ashmore <gashmore3 RemoveThis @cox.net>
wrote:

 >He has made two posts asking the same question. He did not say the
 >bottom was rotting or in need of major repairs. Just that he wanted to
 >"protect" it. He didn't listen the first time so I figured a bit
 >stronger language was called for.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Jim Conlin1

External


Since: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: 193



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:06 am
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Glenn gets extra credibility because he's not trying to sell anything here.

Matt Langenfeld wrote:

 > ok let's not jump this guy and tell him he's wrong for wanting to do
 > this project until he has a chance to better describe his situation.
 >
 > We could all be wrong here.
 >
 > Glenn Ashmore wrote:
  > > I know how to estimate your glass requirements but it would be immoral
  > > to tell you.
  > >
  > > I will repeat: Fiberglass sheathing an older carvel planked hull is a
  > > sure way to a quick death. It should only be done to squeeze an extra
  > > few years out of a hull that is unsalvageable otherwise.
  > >
  > > If you want advice from the real experts, sign into the Woodenboat
  > > Magazine repair forum at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.woodenboat.com/" target="_blank">http://www.woodenboat.com/</a> and ask. 90% of
  > > those guys restore classic wooden boats. Some have several hulls under
  > > their belts and know what they are doing. You will definitely get some
  > > responses. That question is like waving a red flag at a bull on that
  > > forum.
  > >
  > > As to the paint: Marine topsides paints should never be applied below
  > > the waterline. A high quality anti-fouling bottom paint is made for
  > > that. There are many on the market with various formulations. Some
  > > work better in warm water and others in cold. It is best to ask around
  > > your marina/boatyard and find out which brand works best in your area.
  > ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Glenn Ashmore

External


Since: Apr 20, 2004
Posts: 96



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:31 am
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jim Conlin wrote:
 > Glenn gets extra credibility because he's not trying to sell anything here.
 >

Well I DO have this pile of anchors in the back yard. Smile

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</a>
Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Sam2

External


Since: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 37



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Matt Langenfeld <info.RemoveThis@no-spam-jemwatercraft.com> wrote in message news:<ZZ5yc.21430$Yd3.4367@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
 > ok let's not jump this guy and tell him he's wrong for wanting to do
 > this project until he has a chance to better describe his situation.
 >
 > We could all be wrong here.
 >
 >
 >
 > Glenn Ashmore wrote:
  > > I know how to estimate your glass requirements but it would be immoral
  > > to tell you.
  > >
  > > I will repeat: Fiberglass sheathing an older carvel planked hull is a
  > > sure way to a quick death. It should only be done to squeeze an extra
  > > few years out of a hull that is unsalvageable otherwise.

Allan H. Vaitses has a book called 'Covering Wooden Boats with
Fiberglass' which describes a process that does more than 'squeeze a
few extra years' out of a boat.A fairly common practice around here
for wooden shrimpboats is to clean up the hull,coat the hull with 5200
and imbed 24oz woven roven in that.Once that is set up it is saturated
with polyester resin and more layers of mat and woven roven applied.I
have a friend who covered a 55' three masted Herrschoff schooner(?)
with epoxy and glass and not because it was 'otherwise unsalvagable'
but for less maintenance.He put 2 blades on a skilsaw,reamed out the
seams ALMOST but not quite the full thickness of the planks,packed
them with some sort of thickened epoxy then glassed the whole hull, 20
some years
ago.I think a lot of problems with boats aren't neccesarily 'what' was
done but 'how' it was done.I'm not trying to start anything here, just
trying to explore the ying of the yang.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Matt Langenfeld2

External


Since: Apr 28, 2004
Posts: 76



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Good to hear you're making the right, and informed, decision.

Now if you'll excuse me....I have to go get this shoe taste out of my
mouth. Wink

Jason wrote:

 > Actually, that advice was just what i was looking for. i wasn't even
 > sure if i could do it but you answered my questions correctly. the
 > reason i posted twice is because the first message i posted like 15
 > hours before the second but it still didn't show up on my newsreader
 > so i thought that it didnt go through.
 > Anyways guys, thanks for the advice, ill replace any rotten planks i
 > see on the hull after sanding and stuff before using antifouling paint
 > and caulking.
 >
 > Much Obliged
 > -Jay.
 >
 > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:58:20 -0400, Glenn Ashmore <gashmore3.DeleteThis@cox.net>
 > wrote:
 >
 >
  >>He has made two posts asking the same question. He did not say the
  >>bottom was rotting or in need of major repairs. Just that he wanted to
  >>"protect" it. He didn't listen the first time so I figured a bit
  >>stronger language was called for.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Stephen Baker

External


Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 318



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Glenn says:

 >Well I DO have this pile of anchors in the back yard. Smile

You collect Yugos?

Wink

Steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Jim Conlin1

External


Since: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: 193



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

However effective it might or might not be, the Vaitses method is not a quickie fix . It involved thorough preparation of the wood
surface including removal of spray rails and guards, heavy glass layups like 5+ layers of mat and woven roving and close fastening
of the glass shell to the hull with screws.. It was most commonly used on low-budget commercial fishing boats over 40 feet. I
never saw one of these jobs which achieved a level of finish which would be acceptable for a pleasure boat.

Sam wrote:

 > <SNIP>
 > Allan H. Vaitses has a book called 'Covering Wooden Boats with
 > Fiberglass' which describes a process that does more than 'squeeze a
 > few extra years' out of a boat.A fairly common practice around here
 > for wooden shrimpboats is to clean up the hull,coat the hull with 5200
 > and imbed 24oz woven roven in that.Once that is set up it is saturated
 > with polyester resin and more layers of mat and woven roven applied.I
 > have a friend who covered a 55' three masted Herrschoff schooner(?)
 > with epoxy and glass and not because it was 'otherwise unsalvagable'
 > but for less maintenance.He put 2 blades on a skilsaw,reamed out the
 > seams ALMOST but not quite the full thickness of the planks,packed
 > them with some sort of thickened epoxy then glassed the whole hull, 20
 > some years
 > ago.I think a lot of problems with boats aren't neccesarily 'what' was
 > done but 'how' it was done.I'm not trying to start anything here, just
 > trying to explore the ying of the yang.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Fiberglassing Wood - OurBoat.jpg (0/1) 
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