Drop keel won't drop

 > "Derek Lawler" wrote
  >>I have a 1978 Chrysler 26 that has sat on a trailer for the last ten years
  >>after being brought back up from Key West to my house in Pompano Beach. I
  >>intend to re-fit the boat and put it back in the water and go sailing,
  >>however, the 1300 pound drop keel seems to have expanded with rust inside
  >>the trunk and it won't come down.

Probably the most cost-effective way to repair this would be to sell
this boat and buy one in good working order. You're looking at a huge
hassle. Sorry, I wish I had more cheerful news...

  >> ... I have put a large crowbar through the
  >>cable hole that I expanded some by chipping out the cement. By beating on
  >>the bar with a sledge hammer I only managed to shake the boat on the
  >>trailer
  >>some without any movement of the keel. I can't be the only one in the
  >>world
  >>with this problem so someone out there might have a solution for me. How
  >>can
  >>I get the keel free? Thanks in advance.
  >>

Rust expands, so you may have a swing keel locked into it's trunk over
it's entire surface. The best way to get it out will be to saw off the
trunk, lower it out of the boat, then saw the trunk in half. You can
then sandblast the swing keel & refinish it, and fiberglass the trunk
back together. In fact you can fiberglass it back together in such a way
that the repair could not be detectable, and it would be stronger than
the original. It's only time & money!


John Cassara wrote:
 > I had asked the same question some time ago. The best response was to run a
 > saws-all along each side of the keel from below.

That doesn't sound like a good idea. The odds of damaging the swink keel
& the trunk & hull seem very high... what's going to happen when the
sawz-all brushes against solid iron instead of rust? What sort of
protective gear can your wear to ward off the hi-pressure stream of rust
& iron particles & chips of fiberglass? Are you going to trust life &
limb to the swing keel lifting cable & winch that have not seen service
in 10 years?

Anyway, not to be unduly pessimistic... I wish you luck with the
project. It's potentially a nice boat.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop 

<Probably the most cost-effective way to repair this would be to sell
<this boat and buy one in good working order. You're looking at a huge
<hassle. Sorry, I wish I had more cheerful news...

I had thought of selling the boat as is and getting another. I happen to
love the design of this boat and its layout. I have been aboard other 26
footers that don't come close to it in space, layout etc.. I would have
preferred a full keel version of this model but when I bought it the price
was too good to let it go 13 years ago. With the board up it seems to go in
water that seems impossibly shallow and is great for Keys back country
gunkholing.
What I did think of doing is simply caulking in the keel, fixing it in place
and dealing with the problem after using is as a motor sailor for a while,
sailing mostly off the wind. I also thought of simply using the keel as
inside ballast and welding a fin on the bottom of it. Does sound a bit
sloppy though.
Derek



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



begin 666 p.gif
M1TE&.#EA"@$M`,0#`````/___SE(MP``````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M`````````````````````````"'Y! $```,`+ `````*`2T```7_X"".9&F>
M:*JN;.N^<"S/=&W?>*[O?.__P*!P2"P:C\BD<LEL.I_0J'1*K5JOV*QVR^UZ
MO^#J9ZSZA%OF6+JT1HW-[=V;/(JS[+!WG4Y*^WEX>TR!*81LABMK?">*B#6*
M(HMWCHELD2:2`Y2598-J+YN,?9UU0)"7>3=Q?YBMJJ6+<&UZFF2THWRRD72W
MM[5^L<&:F+;%<+^P>,JU?;G,SZ[#J+NSSLC7PYFKV*S LM^@U-.\X^6'?[VE
MTNNLTK/JP*+EY(+KS<W=R?'V>^GFI^T@^1I%L-$E:^Q2F4O(,)L;> 3=]:,7
M\1?%9?^F-22FCI_$A14#0K14C1:A;?;R_RT,U?#4QY2%1F;42!.FI9H''Z
MA[-@QSDKY>W\6=.7G9,W>8J$]2GHT'D/G\[T>+0B2%PZ7V[4N!0@T6@OO2;M
M2/:FS(\NL[IPR7:J,I49CTE%-W/@KKL0E][;"5<OQKDRNYZ-)O!I8;QKC7$+
MY@U;,G']ZCGN5?(>TG'%Q T$=[#D''";/T.>S$OQ-;OX]GX&"FWK$Y9G%,9&
M`OM([=EW<-O&@EKWC$R^`0$/3KRX\>/(DRM?SKRY\^?0HTL/+J#Z``$BL&=/
MH9U[\-M1W0RG/;N[=>LKT*-0KP-\>+/CU5QV/_U$]^W76]RWWX,^V)!RQ%1?
M#_N-Z!ZFE77?^!V+&WH('7*<C>:+V)=IHVSC#&B#"!`*4+:4>9EDYI`<72
M6A0%XH?>@?FU:,**^.7W8(P%M@7?5&8]HU==\R&THUO<=/8/12BN!Z&+$*9(
M8W8+*DA"DS5^%9$W1 +(5V]A"9@2:Q9.20V1*-GHD1-*LLC@A$\>R6":6J:%
M8T\\:47,1:-M5%4G;O)CC9C^$5B"DRJ^&..?:@IZ9'AY!IFCE7)ZZ9J45%62
M)T9^E04%BRX"VB*F;&Y:Z*%1RA7IC6KEQ)";8E5(EEACBLHJ6DZ-^<2,$3:X
MXJVV[O?@C+PZB"8TJ'5)V8:;BA2:*>`V)J[UW82&.+@3;@;I9.VQPIE-AF
HJ^VVW'8+)0UQ6BLN<:R-:^ZYZ*:K[KKLMNONN_#&*^^\]-9+1 @`.P``
`
end
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop 

DSK wrote:

  > > "Derek Lawler" wrote
   > >>I have a 1978 Chrysler 26 that has sat on a trailer for the last ten years
   > >>after being brought back up from Key West to my house in Pompano Beach. I
   > >>intend to re-fit the boat and put it back in the water and go sailing,
   > >>however, the 1300 pound drop keel seems to have expanded with rust inside
   > >>the trunk and it won't come down.

---------------

my suggestion would be a high pressure water jet - water blaster -enough pressure
and enough water and all the expanded rust would, I think, come off and fall out
of the trunk

paul oman
progressive epoxy polymers<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop 

"Paul Oman" <info.TakeThisOut@epoxyproducts.com> wrote in message
news:41E48196.4E393BDA@epoxyproducts.com...
 > DSK wrote:
 >
   >> > "Derek Lawler" wrote
   >> >>I have a 1978 Chrysler 26 that has sat on a trailer for the last ten
   >> >>years
   >> >>after being brought back up from Key West to my house in Pompano Beach.
   >> >>I
   >> >>intend to re-fit the boat and put it back in the water and go sailing,
   >> >>however, the 1300 pound drop keel seems to have expanded with rust
   >> >>inside
   >> >>the trunk and it won't come down.
 >
 > ---------------
 >
 > my suggestion would be a high pressure water jet - water blaster -enough
 > pressure
 > and enough water and all the expanded rust would, I think, come off and
 > fall out
 > of the trunk
 >
 > paul oman
 > progressive epoxy polymers
 >/////////////////////////
I would soak with a light creeping oil such as paraffin or WD40 for a week
or so, adding daily then try again.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop 

Paul Oman wrote:
 > my suggestion would be a high pressure water jet - water blaster -enough pressure
 > and enough water and all the expanded rust would, I think, come off and fall out
 > of the trunk

Now that's a pretty good idea. The mess might be easier to deal with and
easier to avoid cutting away too much fiberglass.

Derek Lawler wrote:
 > I had thought of selling the boat as is and getting another. I happen to
 > love the design of this boat and its layout.

Well, it's a Halsey Herreshoff design.


 > ... With the board up it seems to go in
 > water that seems impossibly shallow and is great for Keys back country
 > gunkholing.

Hush! Relatively few people appreciate the benefits of shallow draft, I
don't want all the best anchorages spoiled!


 > What I did think of doing is simply caulking in the keel, fixing it in place
 > and dealing with the problem after using is as a motor sailor for a while,
 > sailing mostly off the wind.

If you're going to do that, why caulk it? Just leave it.

 > ... I also thought of simply using the keel as
 > inside ballast and welding a fin on the bottom of it. Does sound a bit
 > sloppy though.

Yep... and you'd have to "Rust Never Sleeps" on the stereo a lot.

Try the water jet idea... I regret not thinking of that myself... and if
all else fails, go ahead and cut the trunk out. That way you can rebuild
it properly, upgrade the pivot bearing & lifting gear, and really finish
up the job properly.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop 

"DSK" <dsk.DeleteThis@dontbotherme.com> wrote in message
news:8n8Fd.8037$tF.929@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
 >
 > Paul Oman wrote:
  >> my suggestion would be a high pressure water jet - water blaster -enough
  >> pressure
  >> and enough water and all the expanded rust would, I think, come off and
  >> fall out
  >> of the trunk
 >
 > Now that's a pretty good idea. The mess might be easier to deal with and
 > easier to avoid cutting away too much fiberglass.
 >
 > Derek Lawler wrote:
  >> I had thought of selling the boat as is and getting another. I happen to
  >> love the design of this boat and its layout.
 >
 > Well, it's a Halsey Herreshoff design.
 >
 >
  >> ... With the board up it seems to go in
  >> water that seems impossibly shallow and is great for Keys back country
  >> gunkholing.
 >
 > Hush! Relatively few people appreciate the benefits of shallow draft, I
 > don't want all the best anchorages spoiled!
 >
 >
  >> What I did think of doing is simply caulking in the keel, fixing it in
  >> place
  >> and dealing with the problem after using is as a motor sailor for a
  >> while,
  >> sailing mostly off the wind.
 >
 > If you're going to do that, why caulk it? Just leave it.
 >
  >> ... I also thought of simply using the keel as
  >> inside ballast and welding a fin on the bottom of it. Does sound a bit
  >> sloppy though.
 >
 > Yep... and you'd have to "Rust Never Sleeps" on the stereo a lot.
 >
 > Try the water jet idea... I regret not thinking of that myself... and if
 > all else fails, go ahead and cut the trunk out. That way you can rebuild
 > it properly, upgrade the pivot bearing & lifting gear, and really finish
 > up the job properly.
 >
 > Fresh Breezes- Doug King
 > //////////////////////
Another point, have you ruled out the control being rusted up, if the cable
is rusted theres no way it will move, unless detached.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop 

"Derek Lawler" <dereksl2.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:34ghu0F474126U1@individual.net...
 >I have a 1978 Chrysler 26 that has sat on a trailer for the last ten years
 > after being brought back up from Key West to my house in Pompano Beach. I
 > intend to re-fit the boat and put it back in the water and go sailing,
 > however, the 1300 pound drop keel seems to have expanded with rust inside
 > the trunk and it won't come down. I have put a large crowbar through the
 > cable hole that I expanded some by chipping out the cement. By beating on
 > the bar with a sledge hammer I only managed to shake the boat on the
 > trailer
 > some without any movement of the keel. I can't be the only one in the
 > world
 > with this problem so someone out there might have a solution for me. How
 > can
 > I get the keel free? Thanks in advance.
 >
 > Derek Lawler, Pompano Beach, Florida
 >
 >
 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Up here, where we have cows, we use Whey instead of WD40.
If you leave metal sitting in Whey, it will actually eat the metal
completely away.
Not hazardous and easy to wash off.
Whey, is the byproduct, left over from making cheese.
Yes I'm a cheesehead from Wisconsin.




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newsfeeds.com" target="_blank">http://www.newsfeeds.com</a> The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop 

"rebel" <rebel.DeleteThis@prosof.net> wrote in message
news:41e523b1$1_1@alt.athenanews.com...
 >
 > "DSK" <dsk.DeleteThis@dontbotherme.com> wrote in message
 > news:8n8Fd.8037$tF.929@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
  > >
  > > Paul Oman wrote:
   > >> my suggestion would be a high pressure water jet - water
blaster -enough
   > >> pressure
   > >> and enough water and all the expanded rust would, I think, come off and
   > >> fall out
   > >> of the trunk
  > >
  > > Now that's a pretty good idea. The mess might be easier to deal with and
  > > easier to avoid cutting away too much fiberglass.
  > >
  > > Derek Lawler wrote:
   > >> I had thought of selling the boat as is and getting another. I happen
to
   > >> love the design of this boat and its layout.
  > >
  > > Well, it's a Halsey Herreshoff design.
  > >
  > >
   > >> ... With the board up it seems to go in
   > >> water that seems impossibly shallow and is great for Keys back country
   > >> gunkholing.
  > >
  > > Hush! Relatively few people appreciate the benefits of shallow draft, I
  > > don't want all the best anchorages spoiled!
  > >
  > >
   > >> What I did think of doing is simply caulking in the keel, fixing it in
   > >> place
   > >> and dealing with the problem after using is as a motor sailor for a
   > >> while,
   > >> sailing mostly off the wind.
  > >
  > > If you're going to do that, why caulk it? Just leave it.
  > >
   > >> ... I also thought of simply using the keel as
   > >> inside ballast and welding a fin on the bottom of it. Does sound a bit
   > >> sloppy though.
  > >
  > > Yep... and you'd have to "Rust Never Sleeps" on the stereo a lot.
  > >
  > > Try the water jet idea... I regret not thinking of that myself... and if
  > > all else fails, go ahead and cut the trunk out. That way you can rebuild
  > > it properly, upgrade the pivot bearing & lifting gear, and really finish
  > > up the job properly.
  > >
  > > Fresh Breezes- Doug King
  > > //////////////////////
 > Another point, have you ruled out the control being rusted up, if the
cable
 > is rusted theres no way it will move, unless detached.
  > >
 >

I've been sitting back watching this - just have to comment. Assuming that
the pivot and controls are free, then the thing is stuck because the rusted
plate is bigger than the trunk - hence it won't move. Rust is bigger than
the steel it replaces.
So the problem is to remove the rust without taking everything apart. And
ideally without doing too much damage to the casing..
So I'd suggest the water blaster, used to remove and dislodge loose rust
without damaging the casing too much. With some vigorous use of a hammer on
the bottom edge and trying to push the keel UP a little, trying to make some
space for the rust to fall out - followed by more water blasting, repeat
until no more rust is dislodged.
Then I'd think about trying to dissolve or break up the rust chemically -
don't know about the whey idea, but perhaps phosphoric acid. Fumes,
environmental, etc etc issues, but it attacks/dissolves rust and passivates
steel.
I'd stay away from the lubricants, if the rust has expanded so much as to
lock it in place lubricant isn't going to solve the problem - either the
plate and rust has to be made smaller, or the slot has to be made bigger.
And water repellent compounds would preclude using rust dissolvers again.
If you can get it moving even a little, repeat the treatments.

Assuming you can deal with the hazards, it would be easy to set up a drip
system for the acid. I think time and patience may be important here.

Good luck !
David<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop 

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:05:51 -0500, DSK <dsk RemoveThis @dontbotherme.com> wrote:

 >
 >Paul Oman wrote:
  >> my suggestion would be a high pressure water jet - water blaster -enough pressure
  >> and enough water and all the expanded rust would, I think, come off and fall out
  >> of the trunk
 >
 >Now that's a pretty good idea. The mess might be easier to deal with and
 >easier to avoid cutting away too much fiberglass.
 >
 >Derek Lawler wrote:
  >> I had thought of selling the boat as is and getting another. I happen to
  >> love the design of this boat and its layout.
 >
 >Well, it's a Halsey Herreshoff design.
 >
 >
  >> ... With the board up it seems to go in
  >> water that seems impossibly shallow and is great for Keys back country
  >> gunkholing.
 >
 >Hush! Relatively few people appreciate the benefits of shallow draft, I
 >don't want all the best anchorages spoiled!
 >
 >
  >> What I did think of doing is simply caulking in the keel, fixing it in place
  >> and dealing with the problem after using is as a motor sailor for a while,
  >> sailing mostly off the wind.
 >
 >If you're going to do that, why caulk it? Just leave it.
 >
  >> ... I also thought of simply using the keel as
  >> inside ballast and welding a fin on the bottom of it. Does sound a bit
  >> sloppy though.
 >
 >Yep... and you'd have to "Rust Never Sleeps" on the stereo a lot.
 >
My boat had an external cast iron keel with a steel plate centerboard that
retracted into it. I ended up dropping the keel, using a sawsal with a long
bimetalic blade to cut the centerboard and its bronze hinge pin loose working
from above. The replacement centerboard is being made up of solid fiberglass.
At least it wont rust.

JJ

 >Try the water jet idea... I regret not thinking of that myself... and if
 >all else fails, go ahead and cut the trunk out. That way you can rebuild
 >it properly, upgrade the pivot bearing & lifting gear, and really finish
 >up the job properly.
 >
 >Fresh Breezes- Doug King
 >

James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Drop keel won't drop