Double canoe wooden pontoon boat???

I remember that Bob Hicks' wonderful little magazine, "Messing About In
Boats" had a story about someone who built a boat very similar to what you
describe. Two canoe-like pontoons on which stood an enclosed deck. The story
included pictures and, I think, drawings. I believe it was about five years
ago.
For those unfamiliar with MAIB, Bob's phone in MA is 978-774-0906.
He not only doesn't have a web site, he doesn't even have a telephone
answering machine. You gotta love him for that!!!!!





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 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

Why not find an old catamaran and knock the mast off, then build a motor
mount on the back for a small 10-15 horse OB?
"Jay" <jayhall DeleteThis @uneedspeed.net> wrote in message
news:2e11d2d0.0306261600.1997672d@posting.google.com...
 > Please forgive the long post, but I need some boat building help.
 >
 > I have dreamt up this crazy idea about building a powered Double canoe
 > wooden pontoon boat(similar to a Hawaiian double canoe). The basic
 > idea is this...
 >
 > Build two 16' light weight reinforced stitch and glue canoes, once
 > completed fill the hulls with polyurethane foam and apply a top cover
 > or lid on each canoe.
 >
 > Next connect the two canoes with 3x3 for 4x4 hardwood support braces.
 > Then lay the 10' x 8' floor on top of the support braces. There would
 > be 3' of pontoons hanging out of each end.
 >
 > I will build the motor mount for a 30 or 40 hp outboard directly
 > behind the flooring.
 >
 > Above the floor is just seating railing a bimini top, a bamboo, grass
 > hut, island theme.
 >
 > My questions are as follows:
 >
 > * Can this be done?
 > * I would like a top speed of about 25-30 mph is it possible?
 > * would filling the canoe with foam cause excessive weight?
 > * is a 30-40hp mhp to much? not enough?
 >
 > Please respond with any answers, questions or comments you might have.
 >
 > Thanks for reading.
 >
 > Happy boating,
 >
 > Jay<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

Jay wrote in message <2e11d2d0.0306261600.1997672d RemoveThis @posting.google.com>...
 >Please forgive the long post, but I need some boat building help.
 >
 >I have dreamt up this crazy idea about building a powered Double canoe
 >wooden pontoon boat(similar to a Hawaiian double canoe). The basic
 >idea is this...
 >
 >Build two 16' light weight reinforced stitch and glue canoes, once
 >completed fill the hulls with polyurethane foam and apply a top cover
 >or lid on each canoe.

I think the general idea will work, BUT be careful about using any kind of
"canoe design for the pontoons if you want to get the kind of speed you
suggest. Canoe hulls are generally of the "displacement variety" , designed
for efficient propulsion at relatively low speeds. ie wide in the middle
and pointed at both ends. This places the center of bouyancy near the
center resulting in poor trim if a large motor is placed at one end.
Proper pontoons for your purposes should have roughly parallel sides.
tapered at the front and a flat bottom, at least at the aft end

 >Next connect the two canoes with 3x3 for 4x4 hardwood support braces.
 >Then lay the 10' x 8' floor on top of the support braces. There would
 >be 3' of pontoons hanging out of each end.
 >
 >I will build the motor mount for a 30 or 40 hp outboard directly
 >behind the flooring.
 >
 >Above the floor is just seating railing a bimini top, a bamboo, grass
 >hut, island theme.
 >
 >My questions are as follows:
 >
 >* Can this be done?
 >* I would like a top speed of about 25-30 mph is it possible?
 >* would filling the canoe with foam cause excessive weight?
 >* is a 30-40hp mhp to much? not enough?
 >
 >Please respond with any answers, questions or comments you might have.
 >
 >Thanks for reading.
 >
 >Happy boating,
 >
 >Jay
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:00:58 -0700, Jay wrote:

 > Please forgive the long post, but I need some boat building help.
 >
 > I have dreamt up this crazy idea about building a powered Double canoe
 > wooden pontoon boat(similar to a Hawaiian double canoe). The basic
 > idea is this...
 >
 > Build two 16' light weight reinforced stitch and glue canoes, once
 > completed fill the hulls with polyurethane foam and apply a top cover
 > or lid on each canoe.
 >
 > Next connect the two canoes with 3x3 for 4x4 hardwood support braces.
 > Then lay the 10' x 8' floor on top of the support braces. There would
 > be 3' of pontoons hanging out of each end.

It's not a crazy idea, I've thought of this too.

 >
 > I will build the motor mount for a 30 or 40 hp outboard directly
 > behind the flooring.

I think a 30-40 HP motor would be way overkill. Probably something like a
5-15 HP would be more adequate. You be moving at displacement speed, I doubt
you'd get something like this on a plane (with cheap canoe hulls anyway).

 >
 > Above the floor is just seating railing a bimini top, a bamboo, grass
 > hut, island theme.

It'd be a pontoon boat, lots of options as far as the deck goes. It'd be fun.

 >
 > My questions are as follows:
 >
 > * Can this be done?
 > * I would like a top speed of about 25-30 mph is it possible?

Displacement speed is probably going to be 5-15 mph?

 > * would filling the canoe with foam cause excessive weight?

No, defiantly use the foam if you can.

 > * is a 30-40hp mhp to much? not enough?

Too much, IMO.

 >
 > Please respond with any answers, questions or comments you might have.

One thing I've worried about doing this is whether or not it would be too
light. For example, if you stood on one corner how much is the platform
going to tilt? You would want to be able to crawl back aboard after a
swim with out tipping the other end out of the water (although passengers
and gear weight will help).


 >
 > Thanks for reading.

I'm surprised more people didn't chime in and I'm more surprised their aren't any
more "current" designs for a simple small platform boat.

 >
 > Happy boating,

You too, these are just my thought's on it...

Tony<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

its common practice to lash canoes together with poles when crossing large
bodies of water. there are examples in Bill Mason's books and films. one
shows 2 or 3 canoes lashed together drifting down the MacKenzie River in
with a sand-filled box for a cooking fire, an A-frame mast for a sail, and
someone up the mast playing lookout. another photo shows 7 canoes lashed
together, probably just for laughs.

however for speed you'll want catamaran hulls rather than canoe hulls as
suggested. when lightly loaded canoe hulls dont disturb the water very
much and can be paddled faster than displacment speed (1.55 times the
square root of the waterline length gives hull displacment speed in mph, a
power requirement issue) but I don't knwo what will happen when you mount
an outboard motor between two of them. catamaran shaped hulls are long and
narrow and require less power than predicted byt the displacment hull
formula. because of the way the waves made by the two hulls interact the
distance between the centreline of the two hulls should be about 60% of
their length (actually waterline length). you'll get a boat which performs
like a long narrow power boat which used to be popular before planing
hulls. they are speedy, fuel efficient, and do not make a big wake to
disturb other boaters or wash away shoreline and nests of water fowl.
because you are not lifting the boat onto a plane you do not need a large
motor.

I've seen a boat like this at www.duckworksmagazine.com a couple of years
ago. That article will have been archived now but the owner wrote that he
had used it for years and been very happy with it.

One thing to watch for is the height of the platform over the surface of
the water. If you get into rough water the underside of the platfomm can
pound the waves.

You might not want to place the motor rigth at the back. Depending on the
size adn shape of teh hulls you migt want to put it more toward the middle
where your weight and the motor are better supported. A boat made of two
hulls like that will not turn on a dime, similar to a sailing catamaran.

You can generalize a double hull powerboat with platform deck into a
planing cathedral hull by lowering the platform. If you lower it far
enough it further you'd get a flat bottom planing hull like a garvey.


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 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

I think many of us have had similar thoughts. Let me share mine:

For a planing boat, I had thought to build from Bolger's "Skimmer"
plans, but make the hull narrower -- say, 20 inches or so -- and build
2 of them! Then connect as planned. It's a planing form, so it
should plane nicely. Also see an article called "Mark's Boat," about
building a simple garvey, in WoodenBoat. If memory serves, it's two
articles, Nov/Dec 1988 and Jan/Feb 1999. Check index against my often
faulty memory. Two of these would plane up beautifully, IMHO; I grew
up with garvey's on the south shore of LOng Island and they are
powerful, seaworthy hills.

BAck to Bolger for a "sailing" version" Build two Bolger Bricks, but
make each skinny instead of full beam. Connect and rig for sail.
Sounds way oversimplified, I know, but those are the concepts. Their
benefit, primarily, is that in either case, you're getting a proven
hull form that's known to do what it's designed to do: plane, or
sail. pontoon boats.

I'll probably opt for the "Brick" pontoon myself. I'm just not all
that much in a hurry!

In eithercase, make sure, as Mr Watts suggests, to give yourself
plenty of "freeboard'" that is, clearance above the water. I've been
looking at a lot of commercially available and it's surprising how
much "air" is underneath.

Good luck!

On 26 Jun 2003 17:00:58 -0700, jayhall.RemoveThis@uneedspeed.net (Jay) wrote:

 >Please forgive the long post, but I need some boat building help.
 >
 >I have dreamt up this crazy idea about building a powered Double canoe
 >wooden pontoon boat(similar to a Hawaiian double canoe). The basic
 >idea is this...
 >
 >Build two 16' light weight reinforced stitch and glue canoes, once
 >completed fill the hulls with polyurethane foam and apply a top cover
 >or lid on each canoe.
 >
 >Next connect the two canoes with 3x3 for 4x4 hardwood support braces.
 >Then lay the 10' x 8' floor on top of the support braces. There would
 >be 3' of pontoons hanging out of each end.
 >
 >I will build the motor mount for a 30 or 40 hp outboard directly
 >behind the flooring.
 >
 >Above the floor is just seating railing a bimini top, a bamboo, grass
 >hut, island theme.
 >
 >My questions are as follows:
 >
 >* Can this be done?
 >* I would like a top speed of about 25-30 mph is it possible?
 >* would filling the canoe with foam cause excessive weight?
 >* is a 30-40hp mhp to much? not enough?
 >
 >Please respond with any answers, questions or comments you might have.
 >
 >Thanks for reading.
 >
 >Happy boating,
 >
 >Jay<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

On 26 Jun 2003 17:00:58 -0700, jayhall.TakeThisOut@uneedspeed.net (Jay) wrote
something
.......and in reply I say!:

 >Please forgive the long post, but I need some boat building help.
 >
 >I have dreamt up this crazy idea about building a powered Double canoe
 >wooden pontoon boat(similar to a Hawaiian double canoe). The basic
 >idea is this...
 >
 >Build two 16' light weight reinforced stitch and glue canoes, once
 >completed fill the hulls with polyurethane foam and apply a top cover
 >or lid on each canoe.
 >
 >Next connect the two canoes with 3x3 for 4x4 hardwood support braces.

How many?

 >Then lay the 10' x 8' floor on top of the support braces. There would
 >be 3' of pontoons hanging out of each end.

You will need to strengthen the area around the cross-braces a great
deal. You get a lot of local pressure there. this needs to be spread
quite a way. The other way may be to have a lot of cross-braces, and
make the whole dekc very flexible.

 >
 >I will build the motor mount for a 30 or 40 hp outboard directly
 >behind the flooring.

!!!!!!!!!!!!
 >
 >Above the floor is just seating railing a bimini top, a bamboo, grass
 >hut, island theme.
 >
 >My questions are as follows:
 >
 >* Can this be done?
 >* I would like a top speed of about 25-30 mph is it possible?

HAHA! Anything is possible! For a short distance. The whole design;
small, low, with a large deck area and flimsy superstructure lends
itself to about 5-10 mph. Have you ever done 30mph in a boat? It's
quite fast even in a good runabout, especially in _any_ sort of chop.
The average aluminium tinny dinghy usually does maybe 20 max. Those
canoe hulls are just not meant to do high speeds by design, by
construstion, or in any other way.

 >* would filling the canoe with foam cause excessive weight?

How heavy do you want it? Probably not. Those 4x4 cross-beams may well
weigh more, along with you and "crew", the deck, and the booze on
board.

You _are_ losing valuable storage space.

 >* is a 30-40hp mhp to much? not enough?

See exclamations above. More like 10-15 Hp. You _might_ need more in a
head wind, depending on your superstructure. But then you might be in
water a little rough for your tastes by that time.

 >
 >Please respond with any answers, questions or comments you might have.

You need to study catamaran design before taking this on. The
Hull-crossbeam connection is very important. And I am talking about,
low speed work; sailing and displacement speeds.

Maybe get an existing design. There must be a few of this sort of
thing around.


******************************************************************************************
Huh! Old age!. You may hate it, but let me tell you, you can't get by for long without it!

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
<")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

On 26 Jun 2003 17:00:58 -0700, jayhall.RemoveThis@uneedspeed.net (Jay) wrote
something
.......and in reply I say!:

There have been a lot of suggestions, but no comeback from the
originator. So I gather this was for a troll even though we wanted
30-40mph!

 >Please forgive the long post, but I need some boat building help.
 >
 >I have dreamt up this crazy idea about building a powered Double canoe
 >wooden pontoon boat(similar to a Hawaiian double canoe). The basic
 >idea is this...
 >

******************************************************************************************
Huh! Old age!. You may hate it, but let me tell you, you can't get by for long without it!

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
<")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

Thanks for all the posts guys. Nick I've tried to follow up several
times but it didn't work, so I had to sign up under a different
address just to post this.


After alot of research I realize I need a planing catamaran or
trimaran hull as you all have told me.

I've found several boats on the net that come close to the performance
and hp I'm looking for. But not the style. As mentioned in the 1st
post I want to build a platform/deck type boat. Something that would
haul 5-6 adults and cruise at about 15-20 knots with a top end of
20-25 knots with the lowest hp possible. The websites listed below
come close in size and performance.

www.flatscat.com and

http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Boat%20Designs/TRIdent%2012/wp-10.htm

I'm leaning toward a 14'-16' planing trimaran hull. Built as a
deck/platform boat. My hope is a dry weight of around 600 lbs. and
full load of around 1800-1900 lbs. with a 35-50hp two stroke outboard.
I know that a I'm asking for alot but according to my research these
type of boat out perform any other boat type out there for low hp,
high payload and low fuel consumption.

I still don't know if my ideas will work. I found formulas and charts
to help determine the top speed of monohull planing boat, but the
multihulls seem to outperform these figures by a long shot.

So far this is all I have. If you have anymore questions or comments
please email me or post them. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Have a Great Day.

Jay

P.S. Can you guys tell me how to embed html into my posts? I wanted to
hyperlink the websites above so you guys could check them out and come
right back but was unable to.
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

Jay you might look at...

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?type=item&categ=006&item=933013271&cart_id=5250561a2c128848b6f9b4b1b5d48ecc" target="_blank">http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?type=item&categ=006&item=9...13271&c</a>


(If that doesn't work, try <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.clarkcraft.com" target="_blank">www.clarkcraft.com</a> and follow the links to
the deckboat plan.) The plans are cheap... and I've considered getting
them. They say with a 40hp it'll fly but what they mean is anyones
guess. On a boat this size, 25 would be pretty darned fast.

Ed

jay wrote:
 > Thanks for all the posts guys. Nick I've tried to follow up several
 > times but it didn't work, so I had to sign up under a different
 > address just to post this.
 >
 >
 > After alot of research I realize I need a planing catamaran or
 > trimaran hull as you all have told me.
 >
 > I've found several boats on the net that come close to the performance
 > and hp I'm looking for. But not the style. As mentioned in the 1st
 > post I want to build a platform/deck type boat. Something that would
 > haul 5-6 adults and cruise at about 15-20 knots with a top end of
 > 20-25 knots with the lowest hp possible. The websites listed below
 > come close in size and performance.
 >
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.flatscat.com" target="_blank">www.flatscat.com</a> and
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Boat%20Designs/TRIdent%2012/wp-10.htm</font" target="_blank">http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Boat%20Designs/TRIdent%2012/wp-10.htm</font</a>>
 >
 > I'm leaning toward a 14'-16' planing trimaran hull. Built as a
 > deck/platform boat. My hope is a dry weight of around 600 lbs. and
 > full load of around 1800-1900 lbs. with a 35-50hp two stroke outboard.
 > I know that a I'm asking for alot but according to my research these
 > type of boat out perform any other boat type out there for low hp,
 > high payload and low fuel consumption.
 >
 > I still don't know if my ideas will work. I found formulas and charts
 > to help determine the top speed of monohull planing boat, but the
 > multihulls seem to outperform these figures by a long shot.
 >
 > So far this is all I have. If you have anymore questions or comments
 > please email me or post them. Thanks again for all the suggestions.
 >
 > Have a Great Day.
 >
 > Jay
 >
 > P.S. Can you guys tell me how to embed html into my posts? I wanted to
 > hyperlink the websites above so you guys could check them out and come
 > right back but was unable to.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat??? 

On 3 Jul 2003 09:17:49 -0700, jayhall8 DeleteThis @hotmail.com (jay) wrote
something
.......and in reply I say!:

 >Thanks for all the posts guys. Nick I've tried to follow up several
 >times but it didn't work, so I had to sign up under a different
 >address just to post this.

OK. Thanks. Posts with no follow-up are a regular irritating feature
here.

Planing hulls and power are not my area. But IIRC power cats actually
take MORE power per performamce than planing monos. They ride better,
and handle the rough stuff, but are not as efficient. I would imagine
more power is needed to get on plane, and the wetted area would be
greater.

Planing tris are stable and have good load-carrying, but have a rep
for pounding in chop. You have not said where you will use this
beasty.

 >
 >
 >After alot of research I realize I need a planing catamaran or
 >trimaran hull as you all have told me.
 >
 >I've found several boats on the net that come close to the performance
 >and hp I'm looking for. But not the style. As mentioned in the 1st
 >post I want to build a platform/deck type boat. Something that would
 >haul 5-6 adults and cruise at about 15-20 knots with a top end of
 >20-25 knots with the lowest hp possible. The websites listed below
 >come close in size and performance.
 >
 >www.flatscat.com and
 >
 >http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Boat%20Designs/TRIdent%2012/wp-10.htm
 >
 >I'm leaning toward a 14'-16' planing trimaran hull. Built as a
 >deck/platform boat. My hope is a dry weight of around 600 lbs. and
 >full load of around 1800-1900 lbs. with a 35-50hp two stroke outboard.
 >I know that a I'm asking for alot but according to my research these
 >type of boat out perform any other boat type out there for low hp,
 >high payload and low fuel consumption.

5-6 people at 25 knots in a 14' boat....hmmm...very flat water please,
and watch out for the other boats' washes.

 >
 >I still don't know if my ideas will work. I found formulas and charts
 >to help determine the top speed of monohull planing boat, but the
 >multihulls seem to outperform these figures by a long shot.
 >
 >So far this is all I have. If you have anymore questions or comments
 >please email me or post them. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

 >P.S. Can you guys tell me how to embed html into my posts? I wanted to
 >hyperlink the websites above so you guys could check them out and come
 >right back but was unable to.

NO! HTML in posts is a PITA to most people.
- Heaps of useless fat, and my newsreader can't deal with it anyway.

  - This does not worry me as html allows bugaboos in there.
- although I have set up for "open in new window" half the time if I
click a hyperlink, I lose whatever I have up in my browser, because it
uses the same one to go to the new link.

I would rather copy and paste the site into my browser. Takes one
second.

******************************************************************************************
Huh! Old age!. You may hate it, but let me tell you, you can't get by for long without it!

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
<")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Double canoe wooden pontoon boat???