Diesel Generator Vibration Issue

Wayne,
My guess is that it is not electrical. I think your flex plate drive is
either loose or worn out. The alternator has bearings only on the outboard
end. The engine rear main bearing acts as the other armature bearing. This
mechanical connection is usually done through a flex plate which is bolted
to the engine flywheel and a splined hub drives the armature or rotor. To
check this, the alternator must be removed from the engine.
Steve

"Wayne.B" <waynebatrecdotboats.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:90mfj052997js2c2t486jm4biaag83rvle@4ax.com...
 >I have an 8KW Westerbeke diesel generator (about 12 years old) which
 > has an odd vibration issue at times. This happens most often under
 > moderate to heavy load and lasts for 15 to 20 seconds at a time. The
 > vibration is so violent that the guages are impossible to read and it
 > shakes the entire boat. Vital signs like temperature and oil pressure
 > look normal, there is no exhaust smoke, and other than the vibration
 > episodes, it starts and runs very well. There is ample raw water flow
 > and the electrical specs for voltage and frequency check out OK.
 > I hate to replace it if there is a simple fix.
 >
 > Anyone have an idea what the problem could be?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue 

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:49:03 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
<stevenospam RemoveThis @lusardi.de> wrote:
 >My guess is that it is not electrical. I think your flex plate drive is
 >either loose or worn out. The alternator has bearings only on the outboard
 >end. The engine rear main bearing acts as the other armature bearing. This
 >mechanical connection is usually done through a flex plate which is bolted
 >to the engine flywheel and a splined hub drives the armature or rotor. To
 >check this, the alternator must be removed from the engine.

===============================================

Thanks, your assessment of not being electrical jibes with my
observations. What would explain the intermittent nature of the
vibration given a more or less constant electrical load? Is the flex
plate a coupling with a rubber hub?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue 

I would think that it is just simply a resonance factor.
Ever heard one of those old Cummins 160's?
Let them idle & they are as quiet & smooth as a church mouse. Increase the
revs very slowly & you'll find that at 1400, 1600, 1800 & 2000 revs they
just about shake out of the chasis. (truck)
Most diesels do it to a certain extent. Next time it does it, try adjusting
your governer up or down a few revs & see how it goes.
My guess is that under that certain load, it hits the "rattle" speed.
Maybe if you can tweak it a weeny bit, it might not come down to that rattle
speed under load?
BruceM


"Wayne.B" <waynebatrecdotboats DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3m0mj0t14sj62c23o2df757rq2gva9ckbu@4ax.com...
 > On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:49:03 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
 > <stevenospam DeleteThis @lusardi.de> wrote:
  > >My guess is that it is not electrical. I think your flex plate drive is
  > >either loose or worn out. The alternator has bearings only on the
outboard
  > >end. The engine rear main bearing acts as the other armature bearing.
This
  > >mechanical connection is usually done through a flex plate which is
bolted
  > >to the engine flywheel and a splined hub drives the armature or rotor. To
  > >check this, the alternator must be removed from the engine.
 >
 > ===============================================
 >
 > Thanks, your assessment of not being electrical jibes with my
 > observations. What would explain the intermittent nature of the
 > vibration given a more or less constant electrical load? Is the flex
 > plate a coupling with a rubber hub?
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue 

The problem Is VERY LIKELY to be a combination of a worn drive plate
(between flywheel and generator drive shaft) and the resonance factor
mentioned here.


"BruceM" <bruce@@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:413c54b0@duster.adelaide.on.net...
 > I would think that it is just simply a resonance factor.
 > Ever heard one of those old Cummins 160's?
 > Let them idle & they are as quiet & smooth as a church mouse. Increase the
 > revs very slowly & you'll find that at 1400, 1600, 1800 & 2000 revs they
 > just about shake out of the chasis. (truck)
 > Most diesels do it to a certain extent. Next time it does it, try
adjusting
 > your governer up or down a few revs & see how it goes.
 > My guess is that under that certain load, it hits the "rattle" speed.
 > Maybe if you can tweak it a weeny bit, it might not come down to that
rattle
 > speed under load?
 > BruceM
 >
 >
 > "Wayne.B" <waynebatrecdotboats RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:3m0mj0t14sj62c23o2df757rq2gva9ckbu@4ax.com...
  > > On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:49:03 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
  > > <stevenospam RemoveThis @lusardi.de> wrote:
   > > >My guess is that it is not electrical. I think your flex plate drive is
   > > >either loose or worn out. The alternator has bearings only on the
 > outboard
   > > >end. The engine rear main bearing acts as the other armature bearing.
 > This
   > > >mechanical connection is usually done through a flex plate which is
 > bolted
   > > >to the engine flywheel and a splined hub drives the armature or rotor.
To
   > > >check this, the alternator must be removed from the engine.
  > >
  > > ===============================================
  > >
  > > Thanks, your assessment of not being electrical jibes with my
  > > observations. What would explain the intermittent nature of the
  > > vibration given a more or less constant electrical load? Is the flex
  > > plate a coupling with a rubber hub?
  > >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue 

On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:44:37 +0930, "BruceM" <bruce@@hotmail.com>
wrote:
 >I would think that it is just simply a resonance factor.
 >Ever heard one of those old Cummins 160's?
 >Let them idle & they are as quiet & smooth as a church mouse. Increase the
 >revs very slowly & you'll find that at 1400, 1600, 1800 & 2000 revs they
 >just about shake out of the chasis. (truck)

=========================================

The vibration in this case is way beyond anything normal, and the
generator is designed to run at a steady 1800 RPM regardless of load.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue 

On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:56:38 +0000 (UTC), "James"
<jamesenglish4.DeleteThis@hotmailnospam.com> wrote:
 >The problem Is VERY LIKELY to be a combination of a worn drive plate
 >(between flywheel and generator drive shaft) and the resonance factor
 >mentioned here.

============================

Thanks. Any idea how much work is involved in replacing the drive
plate?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue 

Wayne,
There are many different types.Some are rubber some are spring dampened,
like clutch plates. Others are just a splined hub with spring steel wings
that bolt at a large bolt circle. It is easy to disconnect the generator
from the engine, if it no longer is in the boat. The difficulty in the boat
is limited to the ease of access. On a shop floor, 15 minutes has the engine
and generator separated.
Steve

"Wayne.B" <waynebatrecdotboats.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3m0mj0t14sj62c23o2df757rq2gva9ckbu@4ax.com...
 > On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:49:03 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
 > <stevenospam.RemoveThis@lusardi.de> wrote:
  >>My guess is that it is not electrical. I think your flex plate drive is
  >>either loose or worn out. The alternator has bearings only on the outboard
  >>end. The engine rear main bearing acts as the other armature bearing. This
  >>mechanical connection is usually done through a flex plate which is bolted
  >>to the engine flywheel and a splined hub drives the armature or rotor. To
  >>check this, the alternator must be removed from the engine.
 >
 > ===============================================
 >
 > Thanks, your assessment of not being electrical jibes with my
 > observations. What would explain the intermittent nature of the
 > vibration given a more or less constant electrical load? Is the flex
 > plate a coupling with a rubber hub?
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue 

On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:00:43 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
<stevenospam RemoveThis @lusardi.de> wrote:

 >On a shop floor, 15 minutes has the engine
 >and generator separated.

Thanks, mine is in a fairly accessible location.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue 

I'd try to divide some possibilities, hoping to conquer:

-- Determine if it's a loading or engine malfunction thing by very
carefully marking the governed throttle/injection pump actuator position
under 'normal' operation. If this suddenly moves under the fault
condition, the engine is getting more fuel then. If it doesn't then it's
not load or engine power related, and it's a looseness / shifting
mechanical thing. Maybe coupling, or worse, a loose flywheel.

-- IF it's an 'increased load' thing, two possibilities: (1) Sudden
added load as mentioned by others. Is There an ammeter on this rig??
(2) Sudden intermittent engine malfunction on one cylinder. Sticking
valve? Sticking Injector?

I'd bet on #2 as it would cause strong vibration due to uneven firing.

Keep eliminating 1/2 the possibilities and you'll find it....

--
Regards, Terry King ...On the Mediterranean in Carthage
terry.TakeThisOut@terryking.us
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel Generator Vibration Issue