Designing my own boat

You're welcome to look at the design process for Solo15 on my website
under "Boats" (address below). It describes how I used two free hull
design programs (Carlson and Blue Peter) and compared the numbers to lists
of boats in books. The Solo15 was an exercise to demonstrate on the
Internet how amateurs like myself might go about designing a small boat.
The design is incomplete and will not likely be built. I'd advise reading
a lot of books on boat design from the public library. Chosing the shape
is just part of it, there's chosing the right strength and weight of
materials, getting the weight distribution and sail balance right, etc.

For a combination of inspiration and practical information for small boats I
like the two books by designer/builder TF Jones.

You might be interested in looking at amateurn boat desing competitions.
There's one a year at www.duckworksmagazine.com. I think only the most
recent one is avaiable for viewing without paying a membership fee to login.

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 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

I have a friend who is a professional classical musician. I know how i'd
react if he said to me "Mozart, Schmozart! Though I have no training in it
and have never done it before, I'm going to compose my own violin concerto,
rent a hall and perform it. I expect that i'll get my usual crowd at the
usual prices.". I'd tell him to have a nice time and that i'll come if he
gives me a ticket.

Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't be
any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
trip.



"Thomas Veber" <news.TakeThisOut@thomasveberDelThis.dk> wrote in message
news:bYfXd.19141$d5.146057@newsb.telia.net...
 > Hi all,
 >
 > After building a simple plywood dinghy to test my capabilities, I now feel
 > confident to go on and realise an old dream: To build my own sail boat.
It's
 > going to be trailer-able and around 15-16 feet. With centerboard and a
 > little cabin with sleeping capabilities for two and a half.
 >
 > I have searched the net, read a lot, and found many nice designs in this
 > category. But then I realised... Why not take it one step further and make
 > the design my self?
 >
 > I have Googled some more, and found Carlson Designs "Hulls" program and
 > started playing with it. Fantastic that you can get such a program for
free!
 >
 > But I know, that designing a Hull is one thing. Designing a seaworthy and
 > yet beautiful hull is another. And then designing centerboard, rudder,
rigg,
 > cabin, deck and so on is another thing. How do I know that the sails will
 > not tear it all apart in the first breeze? How do I ensure that the
sailing
 > capabilities will be Ok?
 >
 > For this I am now asking here for any good advice, books, web pages etc.
 > which can help me. I have no particular time-frame, and I will rather do
 > this good, than ending up with a useless boat after spending thousinds of
 > hours in the shed building it.
 >
 > Best regards,
 > Thomas
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

You will see a lot of argument here over the relative merits of careful
experienced designers (Bolger comes to mind And some boats, in some
applications, can be home designed - it would be hard to build a worse
jonboat than those commercially available! But in general, a tried-and
true design, or designer is a good idea.

But there are plenty of good, serviceable, easy-to-build designs out there
that will probably meet your needs. If, after a rigorous search, you can't
find the perfect boat for you, consider making minor modifications to an
existing design.

As to Jim's warnings: Even the best home-built boat has a resale value
approaching zero. Just please, when you launch a home-designed boat, take
it out a lot, alone. Preferably before you reproduce.

Sal's Dad



"Jim Conlin" <conlin DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:acidnRYmDcXRR7DfRVn-rg@comcast.com...
 >I have a friend who is a professional classical musician. I know how i'd
 > react if he said to me "Mozart, Schmozart! Though I have no training in it
 > and have never done it before, I'm going to compose my own violin
 > concerto,
 > rent a hall and perform it. I expect that i'll get my usual crowd at the
 > usual prices.". I'd tell him to have a nice time and that i'll come if he
 > gives me a ticket.
 >
 > Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't
 > be
 > any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
 > trip.
 >
 >
 >
 > "Thomas Veber" <news DeleteThis @thomasveberDelThis.dk> wrote in message
 > news:bYfXd.19141$d5.146057@newsb.telia.net...
  >> Hi all,
  >>
  >> After building a simple plywood dinghy to test my capabilities, I now
  >> feel
  >> confident to go on and realise an old dream: To build my own sail boat.
 > It's
  >> going to be trailer-able and around 15-16 feet. With centerboard and a
  >> little cabin with sleeping capabilities for two and a half.
  >>
  >> I have searched the net, read a lot, and found many nice designs in this
  >> category. But then I realised... Why not take it one step further and
  >> make
  >> the design my self?
  >>
  >> I have Googled some more, and found Carlson Designs "Hulls" program and
  >> started playing with it. Fantastic that you can get such a program for
 > free!
  >>
  >> But I know, that designing a Hull is one thing. Designing a seaworthy and
  >> yet beautiful hull is another. And then designing centerboard, rudder,
 > rigg,
  >> cabin, deck and so on is another thing. How do I know that the sails will
  >> not tear it all apart in the first breeze? How do I ensure that the
 > sailing
  >> capabilities will be Ok?
  >>
  >> For this I am now asking here for any good advice, books, web pages etc.
  >> which can help me. I have no particular time-frame, and I will rather do
  >> this good, than ending up with a useless boat after spending thousinds of
  >> hours in the shed building it.
  >>
  >> Best regards,
  >> Thomas
  >>
  >>
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

Hi William,

Thank you for your nice and long reply. I have been looking at your web
page, and found a lot of usefuld information. I will see if I can find the
"Blue Peter" program also. I think it is a good idea to build models in
plywood. I was thinking of building them in paper, but ofcourse thin plywood
will give a better "feel" of the real thing.

I will study your web page more, and probably return with more questions...
It is specially the weight- and strength distribution that concerns me.

Fortunately we do not have the same regulations in Sweden to toilets as you
have in Canada. But IF there is a toilet, it must have a tank to hold the
waste.

Best regards,
Thomas


"William R. Watt" <ag384.TakeThisOut@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> skrev i meddelandet
news:d0kcna$rji$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
 >
 > You're welcome to look at the design process for Solo15 on my website
 > under "Boats" (address below). It describes how I used two free hull
 > design programs (Carlson and Blue Peter) and compared the numbers to lists
 > of boats in books. The Solo15 was an exercise to demonstrate on the
 > Internet how amateurs like myself might go about designing a small boat.
 > The design is incomplete and will not likely be built. I'd advise reading
 > a lot of books on boat design from the public library. Chosing the shape
 > is just part of it, there's chosing the right strength and weight of
 > materials, getting the weight distribution and sail balance right, etc.
 >
 > For a combination of inspiration and practical information for small boats
 > I
 > like the two books by designer/builder TF Jones.
 >
 > You might be interested in looking at amateurn boat desing competitions.
 > There's one a year at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.duckworksmagazine.com." target="_blank">www.duckworksmagazine.com.</a> I think only the most
 > recent one is avaiable for viewing without paying a membership fee to
 > login.
 >
 > --
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 > William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community
 > network
<font color=purple> > homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</font" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</font</a>>
 > warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

"wtf" <skcusemans.RemoveThis@eudoramail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1110299428.068433.6600@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

few years, I brought in a professional designer for the 20 footer. He
 > went over the numbers and made a couple of reccomendations to adjust
 > the shape of the bow, cockpit placement and design... etc...

I have actually been considering this myself: Do the basic design myself.
Then have all the "lads" down the harbour take a look at it (it is
incredibly how many ideas people down the harbour have when it comes to
other peoples boats . And then have a professional designer look over it.
I think that those money are well spent.

Do you have any more information about your 20 footer. It would be nice e.g.
to see some photos or hear something about the thoughts in the
design/building progress. E.g. how long time it took, what it cost, etc.

Best regards,
Thomas<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

"Sal's Dad" <SalsDad.TakeThisOut@nospam--Betts-hyphen-ORourke.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:r8ednbN17sBeY7DfRVn-hw@rcn.net...

 > As to Jim's warnings: Even the best home-built boat has a resale value
 > approaching zero. Just please, when you launch a home-designed boat, take
 > it out a lot, alone. Preferably before you reproduce.

I am not doing this for money . If I spend these hours working instead of
designing/building, I could probably buy a very nice boat and still have
money left

I actually already own a 30 ft. yacht from 1937. The whole idea now is
actually not to get a boat, but to build it. Ofcourse I have ideas on how to
use it when it is finished, but the goal is the building of it. The
satisfaction to sail a boat I have build with my own hands. Now the dream
just got one step further - the design.

Best regards,
Thomas<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

"Jim Conlin" <conlin.DeleteThis@comcast.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:acidnRYmDcXRR7DfRVn-rg@comcast.com...

 > Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't
 > be
 > any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
 > trip.

I certainly understand your arguments, but even Mozard started somewhere.
But probably he did not have newsgroups, books and computer programs to help
him. So hopefully my odds will be better in succeeding .

But ofcourse: My posting here is to get ideas and inspiration and good
advice. This could end up with, that I buy one of the many plans available
instead of trying a design myself. But one has to start somewhere...

Best regards,
Thomas<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

Don't be put off by people who tell you an amateur or a first timer can't
design and build a good boat. You can take a look at Paradox or Squeak
(read Ladd's "Three Years in a Twelve-foot Boat"), or Toad Hall if it's
still on the Internet. These are just a few examples of great amateur
sailing boat designs for coastal waters. Actually Toad Hall is supposed to
be offshore. The fellow who finally got the design of a trimaran right,
after so many professionals had tied and failed, was an insurance
salesman. Perhaps the most popular desinger of sailing catamarans for home
building (James Wharram) is an untrained amateur.

Some of Phil Bolger's boats may look like they've been designed by a first
time amateur but he's actually a fully trained professional with many
traditional boat designs to his credit. He just happens to design a line
of boats for performance and for ease of constrution by amateurs, rather
than for appearances.

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 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

Thomas,

Sorry for the acidic tone - this weekend, at the Snow Row in Hull Mass, I
was shown a very interesting, home-designed boat. Construction and finish
were gorgeous, and the builder had gone through remarkable effort to get
"approval" from a testing lab. But it was a radical design, which may - or
may not - work, and it wasn't obvious (to me) that it would meet the
builder's needs.

That brought to mind another story I saw not long ago, a fellow who spent 20
years or so building his dream boat - but he had NEVER been sailing! As I
recall the outcome was not real positive.

There are so many dreamers on this group, who would be well-served buying or
borrowing an older day-sailor, skiff, or runabout, and getting out on the
water for a few days! Sorry I didn't pick up from your note that you are
not in that category...

Hope you have read all of Gerr's and Bolger's books - not for specific
designs, but to understand the thinking. Look at the Atkins catalog. And
'Messing About in Boats' has a lot of good info, especially if you, like me,
are one of the people who enjoys Robb White.

Sal's Dad


  >> As to Jim's warnings: Even the best home-built boat has a resale value
  >> approaching zero. Just please, when you launch a home-designed boat,
  >> take it out a lot, alone. Preferably before you reproduce.
 >
 > I am not doing this for money . If I spend these hours working instead
 > of designing/building, I could probably buy a very nice boat and still
 > have money left
 >
 > I actually already own a 30 ft. yacht from 1937. The whole idea now is
 > actually not to get a boat, but to build it. Ofcourse I have ideas on how
 > to use it when it is finished, but the goal is the building of it. The
 > satisfaction to sail a boat I have build with my own hands. Now the dream
 > just got one step further - the design.
 >
 > Best regards,
 > Thomas
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:00:55 GMT, "Thomas Veber"
<news RemoveThis @thomasveberDelThis.dk> wrote:

 >
 >"Jim Conlin" <conlin RemoveThis @comcast.net> skrev i meddelandet
 >news:acidnRYmDcXRR7DfRVn-rg@comcast.com...
 >
  >> Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't
  >> be
  >> any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
  >> trip.
 >
 >I certainly understand your arguments, but even Mozard started somewhere.
 >But probably he did not have newsgroups, books and computer programs to help
 >him. So hopefully my odds will be better in succeeding .
 >
 >But ofcourse: My posting here is to get ideas and inspiration and good
 >advice. This could end up with, that I buy one of the many plans available
 >instead of trying a design myself. But one has to start somewhere...
 >
 >Best regards,
 >Thomas
 >
Well, about Mozart. If you were the naval architect equivalent of
Mozart you would have designed and built a good competitive Moth class
boat at the age of five.

You do have to start somewhere. Maybe you can take inspiration from
supercomputer pioneer Seymore Cray. For many hears he built a new boat
every winter, and burned it at the end of the Minnesota sailing
season.



Rodney Myrvaagnes Opinionated old geezer

Brutal dictators are routinely reelected by 90+%
margins. Only in a truly advanced democracy can
one win an election by a negative 600,000 votes.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

"Sal's Dad" <SalsDad.DeleteThis@nospam--Betts-hyphen-ORourke.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:_LSdnfTHM5t5orPfRVn-hg@rcn.net...

 > "approval" from a testing lab. But it was a radical design, which may -
 > or may not - work, and it wasn't obvious (to me) that it would meet the
 > builder's needs.

I do not want a radical design, but a classic design. Probably cutter
rigged, and maybe with a gaff or gunther rigg. Furthermore I am willing to
sacrifice comfort for getting a more elegant boat - e.g. by not having a too
tall cabin. Most boats I have seen have a (very) tall cabin, which ofcourse
is needed on small boats to get the comfort. I would rather have a 5 inch
lower cabin but then get a more elegant boat. The "Weekender" is actually a
nice boat, but I am not very fond of the interior and the single-chine
("cigar-box") design. But ofcourse this eases the building.

 > That brought to mind another story I saw not long ago, a fellow who spent
 > 20 years or so building his dream boat - but he had NEVER been sailing!
 > As I recall the outcome was not real positive.

I am very aware of this also. And that is why I want to limit the size to
15-16 feet. A smaller boat should be faster to build (or maybe I should put
my words like this: A smaller boat does not take as long time to build as a
larger boat .

 > Hope you have read all of Gerr's and Bolger's books - not for specific
 > designs, but to understand the thinking. Look at the Atkins catalog. And
 > 'Messing About in Boats' has a lot of good info, especially if you, like
 > me, are one of the people who enjoys Robb White.

I will try to find these books. Thank you for the advice.

Best regards,
Thomas<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" <rodneym.DeleteThis@attglobal.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:hpms21d008td7rip5toeu7ejqhoo00h7m0@4ax.com...

 > Well, about Mozart. If you were the naval architect equivalent of
 > Mozart you would have designed and built a good competitive Moth class
 > boat at the age of five.

 > You do have to start somewhere. Maybe you can take inspiration from
 > supercomputer pioneer Seymore Cray. For many hears he built a new boat
 > every winter, and burned it at the end of the Minnesota sailing
 > season.

It was not very fair to make a comparision with Mozart, I know. And I am not
a naval architect, and maybe I will put the whole project on ice again. But
even if I do put the project on ice, I did a try.

When you have a dream, I think that you owe yourself to try to realise it.
Else you will end up as a grumpy, old man saying to yourself on your last
days: "Why didn't I do this, and why didn't I do that?". I think it is much
better saying "I did it, but I failed. But at least I tried". And probably
my plans will never be realised, but I owe myself to try: Maybe I can come
up with something that I can enjoy many years in the future. Maybe not

Best regards,
Thomas<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat 

Hi

", but I am not very fond of the interior and the single-chine
("cigar-box") design. But ofcourse this eases the building. "

Wrong it do not ease the building all it do is that you build the boat
as how you build a house, ------ there are a difference in boats
building and house building ,ask a carpenter to build a boat and you
end up with the cigar box aproach.
Acturly there are much more trouble forcing the stiff sheets to form
round shapes , to do that you use boatbuilding technikes not carpenter
technikes that's the whole trouble.
No sorry the trouble is that you Romans given up the beauty and the
skills, you don't want splendid craftmanship made better with visionary
high-tech you think that becaurse your grandfather once made a cheap
boxboat from scrap and leftover , that _this_ is boatsbuilding ; it
don't look as somthing to place on the lawn so it is to difficult and
then we scrap the fine old crafts and don't give it a chance to profit
from computers.
Realy -------- do anyone want to know what is acturly wrong with these
free software programs, no .
Now it seem that the cheapest and easyest, the free 15 year old
software is to difficult that acturly cigar box boats are not fun ,well
you asked for it didn't you Romans. Is there just one single honest
craftman around one that would feel love for the beauty and visions in
tradisional crafts made better with high-tech no, it is not lame
enough the bottom are not flat enough .

P.C.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/
 >> Stay informed about: Designing my own boat