David Train ban

Allan Bennett wrote:
> Where have we heard all this before?

On this newsgroup,
every time you post it,
you tedious little troll.

Plus ca change!
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

urchaidh wrote:

> you tedious little troll.

Point of order: trolls post deliberately inflammatory nonsense purely to
get a reaction. While I would agree that Allan's posts of nefarious
goings-on at BCU Central are indeed tedious, I think that's possibly[1]
more the BCU's fault than his. Messengers should only be blamed if you
can demonstrate they have an unsubstantiated grudge, and you need to
substantiate "unsubstantiated".

Pete.

[1] I don't know for sure. I'm not really in a position where the BCU
provide anything much I want or need, so I'm not a member. If I was,
especially ion a competitive discipline, I would at least take Allan's
posts as a reason to do a bit of investigation into exactly what they're
up to. Having recently clapped eyes on the LTDP at a pal's house I'm
not inspired as to how many Clues they have.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch.DeleteThis@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

Allan Bennett wrote:
> In article <1122996465.381287.251540 DeleteThis @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, urchaidh
> <URL:mailto:urchaidh@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you haven't got anything sensible to contribute, please just go away.

You hypocrite. You've said almost nothing that could be considered
sensible since the sad day you arrived here yet show no signs off
following your own advice and going away.

> The issues raised in my posting are of a very serious nature including Child
> Protection and natural justice

If that is the case, why is the only place we hear about these issues
in your repetitive posting to this newsgroup? It's been years since you
first started flooding this newsgroup with your nonsenses, if there
were any substance to your accusations would you not have made some
progress by now?

If there are serious child protection issues why are the authorities -
the police or social services - not investigating? Or does your
paranoia extend to thinking that the whole world is against David
Train? Maybe the police are in the pockets of the BCU driven new world
order. Or maybe you're talking rubbish.

Come to think of it, why do we never here from David Train, are you his
official mouthpiece as well as his self appointed arsehole?

What about the press? Surely some national or local rag would be
interested in this if the BCU, a publicly funded NGB, are as corrupt as
you suggest. Had any luck there?

I did read what you had to say when you first started posting. I even
went so far as to contact the BCU when you made your child abuse
allegations against a named individual in June 2002. I was satisfied
with the reply I received, but here we are *three years* on and you're
still talking the same pish.

Face it Allan, even if you had a point, preaching to a dozen
individuals in an obscure paddling newsgroup will achieve nothing. It
obviously hasn't worked in the three or four years you've been trying.

Why no police?
Why no social services?
Why no other investigations?

> and we could do without your puerile and pretentious, copy-cat feigned
> indignation.

Pretentious, moi? Puerile, certainly. But let me assure you that my
indignation is not feigned. You are a cancer on this newsgroup. You
attached yourself to it and killed it.
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

K Offit wrote:
> >> In article <1122996465.381287.251540 RemoveThis @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> >> urchaidh
> >> <URL:mailto:urchaidh@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Pretentious, moi? Puerile, certainly. But let me assure you that my
> > indignation is not feigned. You are a cancer on this newsgroup. You
> > attached yourself to it and killed it.
> >
> Steady on, no-one can kill a NG unless you let them!

A lot of people pointed out that Allans repetive posting were annoying
and ask him, with varying degrees of politeness, to stop. He didn't,
they left.

Use google groups and go look for yourself. There was a thriving
paddling community on here before Allan started his incessant postings
on the subject of BCU corruption. Within a year 80-90% of the regular
posters had gone elsewhere, not because the didn't like what Alan had
to say, but because of how often he repeated it. He would pollute every
thread with his rantings. I guess if he stuck to a thread on BCU
corruption, few folk would read it.

> Allan has given me some useful advice on this NG over recent years for which
> I am grateful.

Indeed, sounds like he's quite a knowledgeable and experienced paddler.
This group used to be full of them.

> I don't mind him airing his views, I may not always agree,
> but I would defend his right to free speech.

No one ever objected to Allan airing his views. But he aired them
incessantly, in every thread, until it the signal to noise ratio fell
to almost nothing. There's a big difference between free speech and
SPAM.

It wasn't just few folks who left in the huff. It wasn't, as Allan
whould have you beleive, just a few folks with a personal grudge. It
was the majority of posters who left, most quoting Allan's nonsense as
the reason.

> And just think what the alternative would be to a Usenet NG: A moderated,
> web based forum for right thinking canoeists, with adverts on the top of the
> page and any real debate suppressed as it may hurt sales figures.

I don't have to think, as what you describe is pretty much what
happened, though I don't think it's (ussuming you're referring to the
UKRGB) particularly moderated. This newsgroup became so unusable that
most everyone switched to the web forum. Why? Pretty much becasue of
Allan.

Even now, people asking questions in this NG will be directed
elsewhere.

> By accusing Allan of having 'killed' the NG you sound like a right drama
> queen.

Maybe, but I'm pissed of. I have a nosey in here every now and again
and it's as dead as ever - it used to be so much fun. I believe Allan
(and his sidekick David Kemper ) killed it. The evidence is there
for all to see.
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

In article <1122996465.381287.251540 DeleteThis @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, urchaidh
<URL:mailto:urchaidh@gmail.com> wrote:
> Allan Bennett wrote:
> > Where have we heard all this before?
>
> On this newsgroup,
> every time you post it,
> you tedious little troll.
>
> Plus ca change!

Alter idem, semper idem.

If you haven't got anything sensible to contribute, please just go away.

The issues raised in my posting are of a very serious nature including Child
Protection and natural justice and we could do without your puerile and
pretentious, copy-cat feigned indignation.


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of the tedious


--
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

>> In article <1122996465.381287.251540 DeleteThis @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> urchaidh
>> <URL:mailto:urchaidh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Pretentious, moi? Puerile, certainly. But let me assure you that my
> indignation is not feigned. You are a cancer on this newsgroup. You
> attached yourself to it and killed it.
>


Steady on, no-one can kill a NG unless you let them!

Allan has given me some useful advice on this NG over recent years for which
I am grateful. I don't mind him airing his views, I may not always agree,
but I would defend his right to free speech.

And just think what the alternative would be to a Usenet NG: A moderated,
web based forum for right thinking canoeists, with adverts on the top of the
page and any real debate suppressed as it may hurt sales figures.

By accusing Allan of having 'killed' the NG you sound like a right drama
queen.

Kam
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

In article <1123160400.709572.184000 RemoveThis @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, urchaidh
<URL:mailto:urchaidh@gmail.com> wrote:

More of the same. I think, if you research the matter, you will find that
there were similar personal attacks to those just witnessed directed at David
Kemper and myself which helped caused the demise of this group.

Frankly, I think it is better without those that think they own it, but
nobody was compelled to leave.

You are not clever in being able to make abusive and personal remarks. It
does nothing to advance any argument you might have, and as anyone that knows
me will confirm, it will not cause me to deviate from the issues.

However, to answer some of the naive points raised in the typically
pejorative manner:

The BCU Child Protection Policy (and poster!) contain the following:

"If you have any concerns that a child may be experiencing any form of abuse,
it must be reported either to your appointed club officer or to the BCU Child
Protection and Harassment Officer. Alternatively, any concerns can be
reported to Social Services, the Police or NSPCC Childline on 0800 800 500."

The Police are only interested in matters of a criminal nature.

Most of the issues that have been reported to me are of a coaching matter and
should be addressed by the BCU. If they believe the matter to be of a
criminal nature, it is /their/ duty to pass it on to the Police.

Once reported to the BCU as the 'relevant authority', that should have been
the end of my involvement, but BCU claims that the allegations have been
'fully investigated' are quite wrong and the matters are therefore not
closed.

The fact that I was expelled for (allegedly) reporting a Child Abuse incident
is unforgivable.

As you claim you are satisfied with the BCU reply to your enquiry, how about
sharing it with us? In my experience, their answers do not stand up to
scrutiny.

I am currently involved with a number of issues with the NSPCC - in
particular how our so-called Child Protection Officer deals with reports of a
child protection nature.

Allan Bennett
Not a fan of the gullible

--
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

Allan Bennett wrote:
> More of the same. I think, if you research the matter, you will find that
> there were similar personal attacks to those just witnessed directed at David
> Kemper and myself which helped caused the demise of this group.

'Personal attacks' didn't casue the demise of anything. They're
ten-a-penny on usenet when discussions get heated, as they did on
UKRBP. I'm not condoning this behaviour and am guilty of it myslef, but
I don't see how it's particularly relevant here.

The problem was you incessant posting of your views on the BCU et al.
Even that would have been fine if you'd stuck to relevent threads, but
you posted to and corrupted nearly every thread, you changed titles,
you repeatdly posted the same

> Frankly, I think it is better without those that think they own it, but
> nobody was compelled to leave.

In the first ten days of August there have been 10 posts:

- 3 on the problems with the BCU
- 6 on the problems with this group
- 3 from the SCA access officer
- 1 asking about campsites
- 1 sad little content free troll in repsonse to the campsite question.

Total number of posters, around seven. In what possible way is that
better than the vibrant community that existed here before you started
your spamming?

I also take this opportunity to repeat my earlier question that you
conveninetly ignored. If you issues with the BCU are so far reaching
and important, why is the only place I've ever heard about them on a
low traffic newsgroup like this?

Nobody thought they owned it. It was the vast majority of posters who
asked you (politley at first) to moderate (not stop!) your behaviour.
In a fit of pig headed arrogance you ignored the majority view and look
what happened.

You're right in that no one was compelled to leave but somewhat niave
in missing the fact that you made the group so intollerable and useless
that they decided to leave and go elsewhere. Again, remember, not just
a few folks but almost eveyone.

> You are not clever in being able to make abusive and personal remarks.

I know that, I don't make abusive remarks in order to show that I'm
clever, I do it becase I'm pissed off at the demise of this newsgroup
and blame you for it.

As for complaining about personal abuse, as someone who has openly
accused someone of child abuse on this group you have a bit of a cheek.
There are, as you well know, correct procedures for handling suspicions
or allegations of abuse. None of these suggests accusing someone by
name on usenet!

> It
> does nothing to advance any argument you might have, and as anyone that knows
> me will confirm, it will not cause me to deviate from the issues.

Allan, given that you utterly ignored the pleas, arguements and
complaints of the vast majority of (now ex) contributers to this
newsgroups, I have no expectations that you'll pay any attention to me.

> However, to answer some of the naive points raised in the typically
> pejorative manner:

Hardly pejorative. I've been reading the same nonsense from you, on and
off, for years so I


> The BCU Child Protection Policy (and poster!) contain the following:
>
> "If you have any concerns that a child may be experiencing any form of abuse,
> it must be reported either to your appointed club officer or to the BCU Child
> Protection and Harassment Officer. Alternatively, any concerns can be
> reported to Social Services, the Police or NSPCC Childline on 0800 800 500."

So where does it mention public accusations on usenet?

> The Police are only interested in matters of a criminal nature.

And "sexual abuse" (your words) is not a criminal nature?

> Most of the issues that have been reported to me are of a coaching matter and
> should be addressed by the BCU. If they believe the matter to be of a
> criminal nature, it is /their/ duty to pass it on to the Police.

Rubbish! Amongst other things your own quote from the BCU poster
contradicts this. You made allegations of sexual abuse and as a result
were accused of wasting police time. So you take to posting the deatils
to usenet.

> The fact that I was expelled for (allegedly) reporting a Child Abuse incident
> is unforgivable.

Allegedly - did you report the case or not, you should know.

> As you claim you are satisfied with the BCU reply to your enquiry, how about
> sharing it with us? In my experience, their answers do not stand up to
> scrutiny.

It was three years ago Allan. I don't still have it. I was given
details of a case number a police officer to contact if I had further
questions. I left it at that.

> I am currently involved with a number of issues with the NSPCC

Well I'd suggest that you put your efforts into that and leave usenet
in peace.

Think long term Allan - if you piss off and leave UKRBP in peace the
numbers will build up again. That way, when you return in, say, five
years time, they'll be lots of people to listen to your rantings rather
than the dozen or so that there are now.

Regards.
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

Charlie wrote:
> Why not just use the killfile? Block his posts from your newsreader and you
> never have to read them again!

I used to, but I'm reduced to google groups these days and I don't
think that's or option here.

I'm on a project with long builds at the moment so have odd times to
engage in a bit of trolling. Three of four years ago I would have
engaged in a bit of paddling chat, but there's not a lot of that going
on here.

I'll get bored again and go away soon.
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

Why not just use the killfile? Block his posts from your newsreader and you
never have to read them again!

Charlie.

"urchaidh" <urchaidh.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123160400.709572.184000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> K Offit wrote:
> > >> In article <1122996465.381287.251540.TakeThisOut@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > >> urchaidh
> > >> <URL:mailto:urchaidh@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Pretentious, moi? Puerile, certainly. But let me assure you that my
> > > indignation is not feigned. You are a cancer on this newsgroup. You
> > > attached yourself to it and killed it.
> > >
> > Steady on, no-one can kill a NG unless you let them!
>
> A lot of people pointed out that Allans repetive posting were annoying
> and ask him, with varying degrees of politeness, to stop. He didn't,
> they left.
>
> Use google groups and go look for yourself. There was a thriving
> paddling community on here before Allan started his incessant postings
> on the subject of BCU corruption. Within a year 80-90% of the regular
> posters had gone elsewhere, not because the didn't like what Alan had
> to say, but because of how often he repeated it. He would pollute every
> thread with his rantings. I guess if he stuck to a thread on BCU
> corruption, few folk would read it.
>
> > Allan has given me some useful advice on this NG over recent years for
which
> > I am grateful.
>
> Indeed, sounds like he's quite a knowledgeable and experienced paddler.
> This group used to be full of them.
>
> > I don't mind him airing his views, I may not always agree,
> > but I would defend his right to free speech.
>
> No one ever objected to Allan airing his views. But he aired them
> incessantly, in every thread, until it the signal to noise ratio fell
> to almost nothing. There's a big difference between free speech and
> SPAM.
>
> It wasn't just few folks who left in the huff. It wasn't, as Allan
> whould have you beleive, just a few folks with a personal grudge. It
> was the majority of posters who left, most quoting Allan's nonsense as
> the reason.
>
> > And just think what the alternative would be to a Usenet NG: A
moderated,
> > web based forum for right thinking canoeists, with adverts on the top of
the
> > page and any real debate suppressed as it may hurt sales figures.
>
> I don't have to think, as what you describe is pretty much what
> happened, though I don't think it's (ussuming you're referring to the
> UKRGB) particularly moderated. This newsgroup became so unusable that
> most everyone switched to the web forum. Why? Pretty much becasue of
> Allan.
>
> Even now, people asking questions in this NG will be directed
> elsewhere.
>
> > By accusing Allan of having 'killed' the NG you sound like a right drama
> > queen.
>
> Maybe, but I'm pissed of. I have a nosey in here every now and again
> and it's as dead as ever - it used to be so much fun. I believe Allan
> (and his sidekick David Kemper ) killed it. The evidence is there
> for all to see.
>
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

In message <1123662847.046072.291570.DeleteThis@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
urchaidh <urchaidh.DeleteThis@gmail.com> writes
>
>Think long term Allan - if you piss off and leave UKRBP in peace the
>numbers will build up again. That way, when you return in, say, five
>years time, they'll be lots of people to listen to your rantings rather
>than the dozen or so that there are now.
>

Whilst I agree with the arguments advanced here, I just wanted to log
the (sad) fact that few Internet users are frequenting newsgroups these
days - I know of other groups lamenting a steady decline in activity. So
frankly, I suspect that for many people, pukka websites are what they
expect to find or frequent (and Google's newsgroup access is no real
substitute). I rather suspect that, even without Messrs Bennett and
Kemper, this group would anyway now be a shadow of its original self.
--
David Pearson
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

David Pearson wrote:

> Whilst I agree with the arguments advanced here, I just wanted to log
> the (sad) fact that few Internet users are frequenting newsgroups these
> days - I know of other groups lamenting a steady decline in activity. So
> frankly, I suspect that for many people, pukka websites are what they
> expect to find or frequent (and Google's newsgroup access is no real
> substitute). I rather suspect that, even without Messrs Bennett and
> Kemper, this group would anyway now be a shadow of its original self.

uk.rec.climbing is a shadow of its former self for (AFAICT) those
reasons. No particular cancer on the group, folk just drifted off to
web forums (with Work Of Stan user interfaces that aren't a shadow of a
good newsreader).

Others have fared better: uk.rec.cycling continues to thrive and grow,
uk.rec.walking seems to be sustaining very well too.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch.RemoveThis@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban 

>
> Whilst I agree with the arguments advanced here, I just wanted to log the
> (sad) fact that few Internet users are frequenting newsgroups these days -
> I know of other groups lamenting a steady decline in activity.

Interestingly, of the few other groups I have time to subscribe to, one
lists 79 unread posts and the others 100+ - I began to subscribe to all at
the same time - only UKRBP has died (effectively) - and Allan and David
don't post to the others...

Keith
(not a fan of obsessive compulsives)
 >> Stay informed about: David Train ban