Corelite (canoe hull material)

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer
<cramersec.TakeThisOut@charter.net> wrote:

>I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
>sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
>dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever.

I'm in the UK...

>There are other foam core plastics produced right here in the USofA (see
>Old Town Discovery series) and they seem to have the same
>characteristics: durable, not very expensive, on the heavy side.
>Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
>polyethelene), which is tough stuff.

Yes, the outer skin reminded me of polyethelene (rather than ABS,
which I think is harder).

Al D
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

Al D wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer
> <cramersec DeleteThis @charter.net> wrote:
>
>> I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
>> sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
>> dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever.
>
> I'm in the UK...

Oh, sorry, my mistake. I know this is an international newsgroup and
all, but somewhere in your original posts I got the idea you were in New
York, Long Island maybe. Looking back, I see you once actually said
"I'll be canoeing along the South Coast of England." Duh. I really can
read. Really.

So anyhow, you'll be in the position to tell USAns what this Corelite
stuff is, as soon as you find out, 'cause I don't think there's any of
it over here. Or at least Google doesn't seem to know about it.

Although...and this will show how old I am, Hydra used to sell kayaks
made of a foam core polyethylene back in the 80's and early 90's. They
called it HardHull.

>> There are other foam core plastics produced right here in the USofA (see
>> Old Town Discovery series) and they seem to have the same
>> characteristics: durable, not very expensive, on the heavy side.
>> Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
>> polyethelene), which is tough stuff.
>
> Yes, the outer skin reminded me of polyethelene (rather than ABS,
> which I think is harder).

Steve

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

Steve Cramer <cramersec.DeleteThis@charter.net> wrote in news:VzZmg.440$M_7.289
@fe02.lga:

> I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
> sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
> dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever. Nothing about
> Brits, but they're 3K miles from here and you can't even make it a road
> trip.

That certainly hasn't seemed to influence the popularity of VCP (or whatever
they're called now), NDK, or P&H kayaks in the U.S.

Personally, I'm always a bit leary of new composite layups touted as the
latest thing since sliced bread since the technology has been proven. Given
that the lifespan of a kayak can easily surpass ten years (my glass VCP
Skerray is 17 years old and still paddles quite nicely) I'd be pretty pissed
if I bought a new kayak only to find out that the hot new composite layup
delaminates after a couple of years.
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

Steve Cramer <cramersec.TakeThisOut@charter.net> wrote in
news:Zd0ng.453$yk1.73@fe06.lga:

> Al D wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer
>> <cramersec.TakeThisOut@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All
>>> the sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe
>>> from a dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever.
>>
>> I'm in the UK...
>
> Oh, sorry, my mistake. I know this is an international newsgroup and
> all, but somewhere in your original posts I got the idea you were in
> New York, Long Island maybe. Looking back, I see you once actually said
> "I'll be canoeing along the South Coast of England." Duh. I really can
> read. Really.
>
> So anyhow, you'll be in the position to tell USAns what this Corelite
> stuff is, as soon as you find out, 'cause I don't think there's any of
> it over here. Or at least Google doesn't seem to know about it.
>
> Although...and this will show how old I am, Hydra used to sell kayaks
> made of a foam core polyethylene back in the 80's and early 90's. They
> called it HardHull.
>

I believe that there were also a few Old Town kayak models that used a
polyethelene foam core layup.
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

John Fereira wrote:
> Steve Cramer <cramersec DeleteThis @charter.net> wrote in news:VzZmg.440$M_7.289
> @fe02.lga:
>
>> I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
>> sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
>> dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever. Nothing about
>> Brits, but they're 3K miles from here and you can't even make it a road
>> trip.
>
> That certainly hasn't seemed to influence the popularity of VCP (or whatever
> they're called now), NDK, or P&H kayaks in the U.S.

Yeah, but we buy them from a US dealer, not Brighton Canoe. All of the
sites talking about Corelight seem to be retailers. Not that you
couldn't buy an 80# canoe from Brighton Canoe, I just think it wouldn't
be a great idea.

I own one car built in Germany and another built in Japan, but I didn't
buy them from a German or Japanese retail dealer, I bought them from the
dealer across town.

Steve

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

Al D wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer <cramersec RemoveThis @charter.net> wrote:
>
> >Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
> >polyethelene), which is tough stuff.
>
> Tough in some respects, for sure. However, my impression is that it is
> softer than, say, ABS, and therefore more prone to deep scratching.
> That's not usually a problem if the hull is thick enough. But I
> suspect that the thickness of the outer skin of this Corelite is
> probably quite thin. One of the main selling-points of the material is
> that hulls made of it are lighter than hulls with similar rigidity
> made of solid plastic. I assume they can only achieve increased
> lightness by using less plastic.

The usual ABS canoe is a sandwich of vinyl, ABS (acrylonitrile
butylstyrene (sp?), and vinyl. The vinyl does abrade, but not that
quickly. It's mainly there because ABS is very sensitive to UV
radiation.

You can run it up on shingle beachs for a long time. WW boaters, who
hit rocks as a matter of course, tend to wear off a big area on the
bottom of the hull. You can add fiberglass or Kevlar armor to the
stems, but for your use it's frankly not worth it. Remember that you
sea kayaking bretheren are running glass boats up on that same shingle.
Pick your boat for handling characteristics and weight. Any plastic
boat is plenty strong for the uses you described.

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:13:12 GMT, John Fereira <jaf30.DeleteThis@cornell.edu>
wrote:

>Steve Cramer <cramersec.DeleteThis@charter.net> wrote in news:VzZmg.440$M_7.289
>@fe02.lga:
>
>> I tried to find some info because I've never heard of the stuff. All the
>> sites Google pulled up were in the UK, and buying a plastic canoe from a
>> dealer in the UK if you live in the US can't be clever. Nothing about
>> Brits, but they're 3K miles from here and you can't even make it a road
>> trip.
>
>That certainly hasn't seemed to influence the popularity of VCP (or whatever
>they're called now), NDK, or P&H kayaks in the U.S.
>
>Personally, I'm always a bit leary of new composite layups touted as the
>latest thing since sliced bread since the technology has been proven. Given
>that the lifespan of a kayak can easily surpass ten years (my glass VCP
>Skerray is 17 years old and still paddles quite nicely) I'd be pretty pissed
>if I bought a new kayak only to find out that the hot new composite layup
>delaminates after a couple of years.

Thanks for the input. The danger of delaminating hadn't occurred to
me. What I am mostly concerned about is that the outer skin of plastic
is quite thin, I'm told... (thinner than on a canoe made of solid
plastic) - so I am worried about that outer skin wearing through,
after beaching the canoe enough times on shingle. That polyethelene
plastic (if that's what it is) seems very prone to deep scratching.

I'm also concerned about the inner core of foam being crushable, say,
when a heavy person steps into the canoe while it's on dry land.

But it's a relief to hear that such laminates have been in use in the
US for years. That suggests to me they must be suitable and reliable.

Al D
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:06:41 -0400, Steve Cramer
<cramersec DeleteThis @charter.net> wrote:

>Although...and this will show how old I am, Hydra used to sell kayaks
>made of a foam core polyethylene back in the 80's and early 90's. They
>called it HardHull.

Thanks for the info. I recall hearing about canoes (not sure of the
country of manufacture) made of a material called Royalex, which also
sounded like what we are talking about.

It's the thickness of the outer skin that concerns me more than
anything. (How much underside scratching it will take, etc.)

Al D
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:05:17 -0400, Steve Cramer
<cramersec.RemoveThis@charter.net> wrote:

>Corelite seems to be a polyethylene (kayaks are made of high density
>polyethelene), which is tough stuff.

Tough in some respects, for sure. However, my impression is that it is
softer than, say, ABS, and therefore more prone to deep scratching.
That's not usually a problem if the hull is thick enough. But I
suspect that the thickness of the outer skin of this Corelite is
probably quite thin. One of the main selling-points of the material is
that hulls made of it are lighter than hulls with similar rigidity
made of solid plastic. I assume they can only achieve increased
lightness by using less plastic.

Al D
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

On 26 Jun 2006 09:21:18 -0700, "cramersec@gmail.com"
<cramersec RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>Any plastic boat is plenty strong for the uses you described.

Hi Steve, I hope you are right. I hope this Corelite stuff can be
classed in that category of 'any plastic'. But if the dealers are to
be believed, it is a 'new' material in some respect. I am reluctant to
trust a 'new' material until it has stood the test of time. I'm hoping
to get some clues as to how well this new material (if indeed it *is*
a new material) stands up to real-life wear and tear.

I would have liked to have asked the dealer if he'd mind if I tried
putting a hole in one of his new canoes with (a) a hammer, and (b) a
chisel, but somehow I knew he wouldn't oblige.

Al D
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

On 26-Jun-2006, Al D <wmth2581.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:

> Royalex, which also
> sounded like what we are talking about.

Royalex, if I have it right, is vinyl coated ABS.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

On 26-Jun-2006, Al D <wmth2581 RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:

> I'm also concerned about the inner core of foam being crushable, say,
> when a heavy person steps into the canoe while it's on dry land.

Some foams are quite rigid and will not crush easily. Just don't let any
400lb paddlers wear spike heels in your canoe.

I have some vague memory of a foam-cored plastic laminate that sounds
like what you are looking at, but, like Steve, I'm having a senior moment and
my old brain isn't coughing up the details.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material) 

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:54:42 GMT, "Michael Daly" <MichaelDaly.RemoveThis@foo.bar>
wrote:

>Royalex, if I have it right, is vinyl coated ABS.

I think you may be right. I think it is Royalex-Lite which has the
foam core, in retrospect.

Al D
 >> Stay informed about: Corelite (canoe hull material)