Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles

Hi there Ed..

"Ed" <ed DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Q_w9g.22080$Sl4.13779@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> is the fluxgate compass working with the autopilot off?
How would I tell this? The green light cycles and the dial rotates to a
course..

> Is the rudder indicator working with the autopilot off?
Rudder indicator? = The dial that rotates - literally when turned on to hard
over..

> Did you double check your wiring?
I have not followed the wiring through the bulkheads yet.

Looking at pictures of other peoples Autohelm 5000; I've seen a small board
with power regulators on them... I have not seen this board in my setup
unless it's inside the drive unit..

> Can you steer the boat with the AH5000 with the pilot off but using the
> steering mode? Can you steer with the steering wheel?
Yes

>
> The answers to these questions will narrow it down. The pilot has manual
> modes that by using them you can diagnose a problem.

Tried by the manual Here now

>
> BTW... are you in AUTOPILOT mode or NAV mode when this happens?

Autopilot mode with various gain level settings

Thanks Glenn Strazds
>
>
>
>
> Glenn Strazds wrote:
>> Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles; Hunter 40
>>
>> Hi there I thought I should ask this group; members with an Autohelm 5000
>> that have experienced their boat going in circles while endevoring to
>> make the autopilot work and what they did to get it to do what it i
>> ssuposed to do....
>>
>> Is the controller defective? a nor and gate needs replacement? The
>> fluxgate compass is close to a magnetic article?
>>
>> Followed the owners manual for setting it up ?
>>
>> Pondering replacement - Navman system to go with the 3100 series
>> instruments already purchased and sent back for warranty - which do work
>> well otherwise including nema
>>
>> Thanks Glenn Strazds
>>
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

In article <Miw9g.11447$aq5.484447@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Glenn Strazds" <gstrazds RemoveThis @netscape.net> wrote:

> Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles; Hunter 40
>
> Hi there I thought I should ask this group; members with an Autohelm 5000
> that have experienced their boat going in circles while endevoring to make
> the autopilot work and what they did to get it to do what it i ssuposed to
> do....
>
> Is the controller defective? a nor and gate needs replacement? The fluxgate
> compass is close to a magnetic article?
>
> Followed the owners manual for setting it up ?
>
> Pondering replacement - Navman system to go with the 3100 series instruments
> already purchased and sent back for warranty - which do work well otherwise
> including nema
>
> Thanks Glenn Strazds
>
>

Did it ever work for you, correctly? If not, then first thing I would
check is to see, if the controller to actuator wiring is hooked up
backwards. Ie controller says turn right and actuater is turning left.
This happens alot more often than one would think, with consumer
installations.

Bruce in Alaska
--
add a <2> before @
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

"Bruce in Alaska" <bruceg DeleteThis @btpost.net> wrote in message
news:bruceg-B78F64.11380914052006@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> In article <Miw9g.11447$aq5.484447@news20.bellglobal.com>,
> "Glenn Strazds" <gstrazds DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote:
>
> > Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles; Hunter 40
> >
> > Hi there I thought I should ask this group; members with an Autohelm
5000
> > that have experienced their boat going in circles while endevoring to
make
> > the autopilot work and what they did to get it to do what it i ssuposed
to
> > do....
> >
> > Is the controller defective? a nor and gate needs replacement? The
fluxgate
> > compass is close to a magnetic article?
> >
> > Followed the owners manual for setting it up ?
> >
> > Pondering replacement - Navman system to go with the 3100 series
instruments
> > already purchased and sent back for warranty - which do work well
otherwise
> > including nema
> >
> > Thanks Glenn Strazds
> >
> >
>
> Did it ever work for you, correctly? If not, then first thing I would
> check is to see, if the controller to actuator wiring is hooked up
> backwards. Ie controller says turn right and actuater is turning left.
> This happens alot more often than one would think, with consumer
> installations.
>
> Bruce in Alaska

Aw, heck, Bruce beat me to it! If this is a new installation, and has
never worked just right, there is a 50/50 chance that the motor wiring needs
to be reversed OR the rudder position transducer/sender mechanical linkage
is turning it's shaft the wrong direction (does the linkage form the letter
"Z" or the letter "H"...... or is the sender mounted right side up or is it
inverted?)
All common problems, even when trying to do the install "by the book".
Lots of us have been there, done that, more times than we'd ever admit.
Old Chief Lynn
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

In article <e490q6$t5i$1@emma.aioe.org>,
"Lynn Coffelt" <coffelt2.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

> Aw, heck, Bruce beat me to it! If this is a new installation, and has
> never worked just right, there is a 50/50 chance that the motor wiring needs
> to be reversed OR the rudder position transducer/sender mechanical linkage
> is turning it's shaft the wrong direction (does the linkage form the letter
> "Z" or the letter "H"...... or is the sender mounted right side up or is it
> inverted?)
> All common problems, even when trying to do the install "by the book".
> Lots of us have been there, done that, more times than we'd ever admit.
> Old Chief Lynn

Tis a Trueism of modern, and not so modern, Marine Electronics.....

Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

Bruce in Alaska wrote:
> In article <e490q6$t5i$1@emma.aioe.org>,
> "Lynn Coffelt" <coffelt2 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Aw, heck, Bruce beat me to it! If this is a new installation, and has
>> never worked just right, there is a 50/50 chance that the motor wiring needs
>> to be reversed OR the rudder position transducer/sender mechanical linkage
>> is turning it's shaft the wrong direction (does the linkage form the letter
>> "Z" or the letter "H"...... or is the sender mounted right side up or is it
>> inverted?)
>> All common problems, even when trying to do the install "by the book".
>> Lots of us have been there, done that, more times than we'd ever admit.
>> Old Chief Lynn
>
> Tis a Trueism of modern, and not so modern, Marine Electronics.....
>
> Bruce in alaska

And all other types of electronics, hardware, software, ....

--
Kees
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

Bruce in Alaska wrote:
> Did it ever work for you, correctly? If not, then first thing I would
> check is to see, if the controller to actuator wiring is hooked up
> backwards. Ie controller says turn right and actuater is turning left.
> This happens alot more often than one would think, with consumer
> installations.

This reminds me of a problem with an st2000+ tiller pilot we were just
installing in an Etap 26. The boat is equipped with EVS (Etap Vertical
Steering), so the "tiller" is mounted vertically, see
http://www.wslc.co.jp/yacht/img/etap/EVS_34s.jpg . When sitting on the
small middle bench at the back, you steer like you would steer with a
wheel, turning the tiller to starboard if you want the boat to turn to
starboard.

When a tiller pilot is attached to an EVS system, the pilot of course
steers backwards. If you reverse the direction of mounting in the tiller
with a certain button combination, you get the correct movement, but the
autopilot's internal compass now reads 180 degrees off. Is there a way
to fix this? I didn't find anything useful in the manual about this
situation. Could the fix be a reversing of some actuator wiring inside
the pilot, similar to what is described above? Or could it work if we
entered a declination of 180 + the real declination in the autopilot..?

An additional external fluxgate compass would probably fix this, but it
naturally costs money.

Tapio
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

Hi there Bruce...

Did it ever work correctly for me; No! I'm the second owner of the boat
Hunter 40 85 model.

I did open up the controller box - tested the transistors; all OK; checked
out the pn# of the IC's several nor and gates where I will have to
completely dismantle the board to test - and build a logic table test bed as
well...
Is it possible the previous owners electronics installer guy made a reverse
wiring booboo - Does not look like it though?? Why; When the unit is turned
on it is not supposed to spin all the way around to hard over and stop?

I kinda wondered how it knew the boat is going forward - Did the hold a
course for 20 seconds; then engage; where on one occasion over a minute
decide to slowly veer towards a buoy... others - hard over

Boats far away to far to check right now

I'm close to pushing the button on the purchase of a Navman autopilot off of
ebay new
Since the drive motor is apparently compatible with the autopilot where I do
not currently need to also buy a hydraulic pump and ram;

Apparently the drive motor is permanent magnet with replaceable bearings

Ought to be OK with a new setup; Includes rudder position sensor arm

Thanks Glenn Strazds

> Did it ever work for you, correctly? If not, then first thing I would
> check is to see, if the controller to actuator wiring is hooked up
> backwards. Ie controller says turn right and actuator is turning left.
> This happens alot more often than one would think, with consumer
> installations.

Bruce in Alaska


> add a <2> before @
"Bruce in Alaska" <bruceg DeleteThis @btpost.net> wrote in message
news:bruceg-B78F64.11380914052006@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> In article <Miw9g.11447$aq5.484447@news20.bellglobal.com>,
> "Glenn Strazds" <gstrazds DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles; Hunter 40
>>
>> Hi there I thought I should ask this group; members with an Autohelm 5000
>> that have experienced their boat going in circles while endevoring to
>> make
>> the autopilot work and what they did to get it to do what it i ssuposed
>> to
>> do....
>>
>> Is the controller defective? a nor and gate needs replacement? The
>> fluxgate
>> compass is close to a magnetic article?
>>
>> Followed the owners manual for setting it up ?
>>
>> Pondering replacement - Navman system to go with the 3100 series
>> instruments
>> already purchased and sent back for warranty - which do work well
>> otherwise
>> including nema
>>
>> Thanks Glenn Strazds
>>
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

In article <vguag.8123$aa4.187103@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Glenn Strazds" <gstrazds.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote:

> Hi there Bruce...
>
> Did it ever work correctly for me; No! I'm the second owner of the boat
> Hunter 40 85 model.
>
> I did open up the controller box - tested the transistors; all OK; checked
> out the pn# of the IC's several nor and gates where I will have to
> completely dismantle the board to test - and build a logic table test bed as
> well...
> Is it possible the previous owners electronics installer guy made a reverse
> wiring booboo - Does not look like it though?? Why; When the unit is turned
> on it is not supposed to spin all the way around to hard over and stop?
>
> I kinda wondered how it knew the boat is going forward - Did the hold a
> course for 20 seconds; then engage; where on one occasion over a minute
> decide to slowly veer towards a buoy... others - hard over
>
> Boats far away to far to check right now
>
> I'm close to pushing the button on the purchase of a Navman autopilot off of
> ebay new
> Since the drive motor is apparently compatible with the autopilot where I do
> not currently need to also buy a hydraulic pump and ram;
>
> Apparently the drive motor is permanent magnet with replaceable bearings
>
> Ought to be OK with a new setup; Includes rudder position sensor arm
>
> Thanks Glenn Strazds
>

Like I stated, if it never worked correctly from the "Get Go", then
the most common problem would be a reversed drive power. Seen it
to many time to ignore. Try reversing it and see what happens, you
can't be any worse off by doing this test.



Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

OK will try it
Thanks Glenn Strazds

Might be giving up a new modern Autopilot humm...

"Bruce in Alaska" <bruceg.DeleteThis@btpost.net> wrote in message
news:bruceg-41C9AE.13310317052006@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> In article <vguag.8123$aa4.187103@news20.bellglobal.com>,
> "Glenn Strazds" <gstrazds.DeleteThis@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi there Bruce...
>>
>> Did it ever work correctly for me; No! I'm the second owner of the boat
>> Hunter 40 85 model.
>>
>> I did open up the controller box - tested the transistors; all OK;
>> checked
>> out the pn# of the IC's several nor and gates where I will have to
>> completely dismantle the board to test - and build a logic table test bed
>> as
>> well...
>> Is it possible the previous owners electronics installer guy made a
>> reverse
>> wiring booboo - Does not look like it though?? Why; When the unit is
>> turned
>> on it is not supposed to spin all the way around to hard over and stop?
>>
>> I kinda wondered how it knew the boat is going forward - Did the hold a
>> course for 20 seconds; then engage; where on one occasion over a minute
>> decide to slowly veer towards a buoy... others - hard over
>>
>> Boats far away to far to check right now
>>
>> I'm close to pushing the button on the purchase of a Navman autopilot off
>> of
>> ebay new
>> Since the drive motor is apparently compatible with the autopilot where I
>> do
>> not currently need to also buy a hydraulic pump and ram;
>>
>> Apparently the drive motor is permanent magnet with replaceable bearings
>>
>> Ought to be OK with a new setup; Includes rudder position sensor arm
>>
>> Thanks Glenn Strazds
>>
>
> Like I stated, if it never worked correctly from the "Get Go", then
> the most common problem would be a reversed drive power. Seen it
> to many time to ignore. Try reversing it and see what happens, you
> can't be any worse off by doing this test.
>
>
>
> Bruce in alaska
> --
> add a <2> before @
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

I haven't seen anything to confirm you have checked your rudder
reference transducer. If you haven't you should disconnect first and
then check for red to green of 5K ohms and green to blue of 0 to 5K
ohms for 0 to 360 degrees of rotation.
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

I have an Autohelm 500 on my CSY 33 . It works fine.

Couple of questions. You do have a manual and understand how to use
this, yes?

Second, is it possible that there is interference with its internal
compass?

(I could not figure out why the PO mounted the controller so far away
from the nav station. When I read the manual I understood why).
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

Hi there..

Where is the rudder transducer located?
I would be pleased to take a couple resistance measurements

No schematics


thanks Glenn Strazds



<timquig.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148471690.009990.287360@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I haven't seen anything to confirm you have checked your rudder
> reference transducer. If you haven't you should disconnect first and
> then check for red to green of 5K ohms and green to blue of 0 to 5K
> ohms for 0 to 360 degrees of rotation.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles 

Follow the wires from your control head to the Sailpilot and the
reference unit. They both are going to be physically attached to the
rudder quadrant but mounted to something fixed on the hull. The
reference unit is a black device that rotates as your quadrant moves.
This makes the resistance value in the leads from the reference unit
change. Disconnect them and take the resistance measurement.
 >> Stay informed about: Autohelm 5000 Boat going in circles