Advice needed

Thnx for your reply,

I have just registered at the link you gave me so will take a look at the
forums there.

I am looking at two plans by <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hartley-boats.com/home.html" target="_blank">http://www.hartley-boats.com/home.html</a> can be
found under the power boats link there. The first is the Vixen 25-27 and the
second the Blue marlin 30.

The Vixen plans include a build for plywood where as the Marlin can be done
in ferro Cement. I am a plasterer by trade ( internal and external
buildings) so I first thought the Marlin would be an ideal choice for me as
i would be working with materials I use every day at work and have much
experience with. I purchased Colin Brookes book from the site on ferro
cement boats and found it very informative. His team built and plastered
many boats with him working hands on in the projects, so he has a lot of
experience. The fact that the cost of this technique is very cheap makes it
a nice option for me but the real financial savings are made with boats 25
ft upwards so you need to be building quite big to benefit from it. Also the
boat does not need to be built in a covered area (pulling a sheet over it
would be enough when not working on it).

I know I could get a nice finish on the boat because of my trade but as you
can imagine things must be planned carefully with this method. It is not
like wood which can be easily fixed with screws and glue etc.. So if a
mistake is made drilling holes for fixings etc in the boat could be a heavy
job.

I am going to be building at the back of my house and to be honest a 30ft
boat is going to be on the limit of the space I have available to me so that
is why I am considering the Vixen at 25ft aswell. Plus working with wood
gives more leeway and scope for design changes etc..

So I have to make a decision on what to go for. I picked a motor cruiser
because with it going to be my first boat I thought it would be a easier to
sail and cheaper to fit out as I would not have the costs of masts, sails
etc.

Adrian.

"Julian" <nospam DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ffAab.9957$Z_5.966@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
 > "Adrian" <epiphone DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TWzab.9593$Z_5.2243@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
  > > Hi all,
  > >
  > > I am to begin building a motor cruiser soon, just have to make a final
  > > choice between a couple of plans I have been looking at. I live in the
UK.
 >
 > What are you thinking of building? I would be interested to hear more
 > details of your project.
 >
 > I don't know the answer to your question but, if you don't get an answer
 > from this group, you could try going across and registering with
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ybw.com/ybw/home.htm." target="_blank">http://www.ybw.com/ybw/home.htm.</a> They have a set of web forums that
 > have a number of people who appear helpful and knowledgeable. The
 > participants are mostly UK based so you are quite likely to find someone
 > with knowledge of UK/European regulations.
 >
 > - Julian
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

you may also want to consider insurance. a call to a marine insurer might
help.

"Julian" (nospam@nospam.com) writes:
 > "Adrian" <epiphone DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:TWzab.9593$Z_5.2243@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
  >> Hi all,
  >>
  >> I am to begin building a motor cruiser soon, just have to make a final
  >> choice between a couple of plans I have been looking at. I live in the UK.
 >
 > What are you thinking of building? I would be interested to hear more
 > details of your project.
 >
 > I don't know the answer to your question but, if you don't get an answer
 > from this group, you could try going across and registering with
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ybw.com/ybw/home.htm." target="_blank">http://www.ybw.com/ybw/home.htm.</a> They have a set of web forums that
 > have a number of people who appear helpful and knowledgeable. The
 > participants are mostly UK based so you are quite likely to find someone
 > with knowledge of UK/European regulations.
 >
 > - Julian
 >
 >


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</a>
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

Yes I will definately be wanting insurance.

From what I can gather by my research is that first I am going to need a
safety certificate, then some insurance and then some form of license for
whatever waterways I will be travelling on. I just need to find out where I
can obtain these from. The marine insurance I am guessing will be able to
steer me in the right directions for most of them. I just want to make sure
that when I eventually get in the water I have done all my homework and am
covered properly. Would hate to spend time and money on my project and then
end up in trouble for not having done all the stuff required.

Adrian.


"William R. Watt" <ag384.RemoveThis@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:bkf4f6$1f$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...
 > you may also want to consider insurance. a call to a marine insurer might
 > help.
 >
 > "Julian" (nospam@nospam.com) writes:
  > > "Adrian" <epiphone.RemoveThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TWzab.9593$Z_5.2243@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
   > >> Hi all,
   > >>
   > >> I am to begin building a motor cruiser soon, just have to make a final
   > >> choice between a couple of plans I have been looking at. I live in the
UK.
  > >
  > > What are you thinking of building? I would be interested to hear more
  > > details of your project.
  > >
  > > I don't know the answer to your question but, if you don't get an answer
  > > from this group, you could try going across and registering with
  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ybw.com/ybw/home.htm." target="_blank">http://www.ybw.com/ybw/home.htm.</a> They have a set of web forums that
  > > have a number of people who appear helpful and knowledgeable. The
  > > participants are mostly UK based so you are quite likely to find someone
  > > with knowledge of UK/European regulations.
  > >
  > > - Julian
  > >
  > >
 >
 >
 > --
 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
 > William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community
network
<font color=purple> > homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</font" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</font</a>>
 > warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

I didn't pay great attention to the details since I'm from the US, but
I seem to recall a furor some time ago about the "Recreational
Craft Directive". I think the RCD was requiring every boat
(including home builts) to certify to some absurd safety standard,
including some type of stability test. The UK magazines that I
occasionally read thought it was completely ridiculous. You might
want to try a search on RCD to see if anything turns up.

Matt

"Adrian" <epiphone.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TWzab.9593$Z_5.2243@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
 > Hi all,
 >
 > I am to begin building a motor cruiser soon, just have to make a final
 > choice between a couple of plans I have been looking at. I live in the UK.
 > My question is about what to do when you have completed a boat. I presume
I
 > need to get a safety certificate before I can launch the boat ? Is there
 > other procedures I need to follow aswell ? I want to get an idea of what
 > things I need to do when I have a completed boat and how much to allow for
 > them in my budget.
 >
 > Any advice or pointers to suitable reading material on such things would
be
 > appreciated. It will be my first boat so I am a little green regarding
these
 > matters.
 >
 > many thnx,
 >
 > Adrian.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:34:41 GMT, "Matt/Meribeth Pedersen"
<pedersen1.RemoveThis@mindspring.com> wrote:

 >I didn't pay great attention to the details since I'm from the US, but
 >I seem to recall a furor some time ago about the "Recreational
 >Craft Directive". I think the RCD was requiring every boat
 >(including home builts) to certify to some absurd safety standard,
 >including some type of stability test. The UK magazines that I
 >occasionally read thought it was completely ridiculous. You might
 >want to try a search on RCD to see if anything turns up.

(Hi Matt, you're still alive, huh.)

Yes, I think the standard, if I recall correctly, was a remarkably
stupid bit of bureaucratic work. I believe it called for positive
flotation when swamped.

Most traditional boats would fail.

The Traditional Small Craft Association fought this one. Can't
remember how it turned out.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:34:41 +0000, Matt/Meribeth Pedersen wrote:

 > I didn't pay great attention to the details since I'm from the US, but
 > I seem to recall a furor some time ago about the "Recreational
 > Craft Directive". I think the RCD was requiring every boat
 > (including home builts) to certify to some absurd safety standard,
 > including some type of stability test. The UK magazines that I
 > occasionally read thought it was completely ridiculous. You might
 > want to try a search on RCD to see if anything turns up.

The RCD only comes to play if you intend to sell the boat. For your
own personal use you can do what you want to. In Europe it is not
legal to sell a boat which is not CE marked, ie you must proove it
is buildt acording to the RCD. Bu if the boat has been used for 5
years or more you can legaly sell it. By 5 years in use the boat
has prooven to be good enough. (At least that is the way it is in
Norway, and probably in the rest of Europe also.)

--
Oddgeir<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

Thnx everyone for your input, much appreciated.

I will try a search on RCD now and see what I can find. Would imagine
getting a ferro cement boat to positive flotation when swamped could be
interesting lol.

Adrian.


"P.C. Ford" <cwservices2.TakeThisOut@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:djemmv8phvqub4k1hgchje7ukudk4tnipp@4ax.com...
 > On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:34:41 GMT, "Matt/Meribeth Pedersen"
 > <pedersen1.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote:
 >
  > >I didn't pay great attention to the details since I'm from the US, but
  > >I seem to recall a furor some time ago about the "Recreational
  > >Craft Directive". I think the RCD was requiring every boat
  > >(including home builts) to certify to some absurd safety standard,
  > >including some type of stability test. The UK magazines that I
  > >occasionally read thought it was completely ridiculous. You might
  > >want to try a search on RCD to see if anything turns up.
 >
 > (Hi Matt, you're still alive, huh.)
 >
 > Yes, I think the standard, if I recall correctly, was a remarkably
 > stupid bit of bureaucratic work. I believe it called for positive
 > flotation when swamped.
 >
 > Most traditional boats would fail.
 >
 > The Traditional Small Craft Association fought this one. Can't
 > remember how it turned out.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

There are still a few people around who were in that initial TSCA (Traditional
Small Craft Association) vs USCG (U.S. Coast Guard) fray back around 1974.
Unfortunately, the 2 who probably know most about it are not on the net.

Also unfortunately, an apparent minority in the leadership of the Society of
Nautical Architects and Maritime Engineers (SNAME) tried to resurrect a similar
theme about 2 years ago. Essentially, they wanted to force a NA or ME signature
of approval on any boat plans offered for sale or public distribution. Their
forum was to try to get individual state legislatures to pass laws to that
effect.

A small group of TSCA people, alerted by a timely article in Messing About in
Boats, was able to get enough backlash against SNAME in a few places that the
effort apparently was dropped (at least publicly). It is also possible that the
SNAME membership at large, who apparently was not in favor of the effort, was
instrumental in allowing it to fade away -- at least temporarily.

Finally (for now), for 2 years running there have been efforts in the CT state
legislature to register ALL small boats regardless of size or origin. TSCA
members were instrumental in getting a total of 4 such bills squashed. I'm sure
there have been similar attempts in other states.

We have to remain vigilant! Your membership can help!
------------------
John Weiss
Seattle, WA
recent past President,
The Traditional Small Craft Association
PO Box 350
Mystic, CT 06355
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tsca.net" target="_blank">www.tsca.net</a>

remove NOSPAM from reply address

"Adrian" <epiphone RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote...
 >
 > I will try a search on RCD now and see what I can find. Would imagine
 > getting a ferro cement boat to positive flotation when swamped could be
 > interesting lol.

 > "P.C. Ford" <cwservices2 RemoveThis @qwest.net> wrote...
  > > Yes, I think the standard, if I recall correctly, was a remarkably
  > > stupid bit of bureaucratic work. I believe it called for positive
  > > flotation when swamped.
  > >
  > > Most traditional boats would fail.
  > >
  > > The Traditional Small Craft Association fought this one. Can't
  > > remember how it turned out.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

"Adrian" <epiphone.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<J_Bab.11227$Z_5.7232@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>...
 > Thnx for your reply,
 >
 > I have just registered at the link you gave me so will take a look at the
 > forums there.
 >
 > I am looking at two plans by <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hartley-boats.com/home.html" target="_blank">http://www.hartley-boats.com/home.html</a> can be
 > found under the power boats link there. The first is the Vixen 25-27 and the
 > second the Blue marlin 30.
 >

He has some nice trimaran's in there. If I had enough room/money, I'd
be tempted with the "Lively 28". Anyone built one?

Cheers,
Mark<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed 

Build it in Australia mate, .......... Bang a few nails into a hunk of wood
& go register it for a few bucks & you can go anywhere in it. No checks or
anything. Of course if you do charters there is.........
BruceM


"John R Weiss" <jrweiss@att*NOSPAM*global.net> wrote in message
news:3f6de31f_3@news1.prserv.net...
 > There are still a few people around who were in that initial TSCA
(Traditional
 > Small Craft Association) vs USCG (U.S. Coast Guard) fray back around 1974.
 > Unfortunately, the 2 who probably know most about it are not on the net.
 >
 > Also unfortunately, an apparent minority in the leadership of the Society
of
 > Nautical Architects and Maritime Engineers (SNAME) tried to resurrect a
similar
 > theme about 2 years ago. Essentially, they wanted to force a NA or ME
signature
 > of approval on any boat plans offered for sale or public distribution.
Their
 > forum was to try to get individual state legislatures to pass laws to that
 > effect.
 >
 > A small group of TSCA people, alerted by a timely article in Messing About
in
 > Boats, was able to get enough backlash against SNAME in a few places that
the
 > effort apparently was dropped (at least publicly). It is also possible
that the
 > SNAME membership at large, who apparently was not in favor of the effort,
was
 > instrumental in allowing it to fade away -- at least temporarily.
 >
 > Finally (for now), for 2 years running there have been efforts in the CT
state
 > legislature to register ALL small boats regardless of size or origin.
TSCA
 > members were instrumental in getting a total of 4 such bills squashed.
I'm sure
 > there have been similar attempts in other states.
 >
 > We have to remain vigilant! Your membership can help!
 > ------------------
 > John Weiss
 > Seattle, WA
 > recent past President,
 > The Traditional Small Craft Association
 > PO Box 350
 > Mystic, CT 06355
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tsca.net</font" target="_blank">www.tsca.net</font</a>>
 >
 > remove NOSPAM from reply address
 >
 > "Adrian" <epiphone.DeleteThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote...
  > >
  > > I will try a search on RCD now and see what I can find. Would imagine
  > > getting a ferro cement boat to positive flotation when swamped could be
  > > interesting lol.
 >
  > > "P.C. Ford" <cwservices2.DeleteThis@qwest.net> wrote...
   > > > Yes, I think the standard, if I recall correctly, was a remarkably
   > > > stupid bit of bureaucratic work. I believe it called for positive
   > > > flotation when swamped.
   > > >
   > > > Most traditional boats would fail.
   > > >
   > > > The Traditional Small Craft Association fought this one. Can't
   > > > remember how it turned out.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Advice needed