AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?

Indeed, the AIS info could be a big aid in the water poluting from the
ships, since the ships track can be retraced any time after ..
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

> The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
> web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
> Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
> discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
> on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

Ah right, so beyond just the notion of being "shocked, shocked!" to imagine
the BROADCASTED data being published, they're asking their member
governments to punish it's citizenry for making use of it. Data that's
being broadcast on airwaves that belong to the people. Yeesh, talk about
myopic.
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in news:-fWdnUejTeD9u77ZRVn-
jg DeleteThis @speakeasy.net:

> Yeesh, talk about
> myopic.
>

Islamic terrorists and ship pirates don't own AIS receivers, but all have
the latest computers and broadband connections.

How stupid.....

I suspect this has more to do with the PUBLIC finding out how many ships
are dumping their ballast water and polluting the local harbors, than it is
about terrorism and piracy.....aha!
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

"Pascal" <pascalg.DeleteThis@uol.com.br> wrote in message
news:1143149475.573793.279910@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
> I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.
>
> Maritime security - AIS ship data
>
> At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
> (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
> automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
> world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
> AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
> security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
> of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
> navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.

According to Dutch law and the law in many other countries, one is either:
a) free to receive anything, but one may not use, retransmit or publish
received messages to a third party. So according to that law, it would be
illegal IMO to publish AIS data on the web.

or

b) one is not allowed to receive anything else than broadcaast radio, unless
one has a licence for a specific radio service (Germany comes to mind, where
the posession of scanners is illegal).

Meindert
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

"Meindert Sprang" <ms.TakeThisOut@NOJUNKcustomORSPAMware.nl> wrote in
news:12268hq2s6t1te9@corp.supernews.com:

> b) one is not allowed to receive anything else than broadcaast radio,
> unless one has a licence for a specific radio service (Germany comes
> to mind, where the posession of scanners is illegal).
>
> Meindert
>
>

Wasn't long ago that it was a death sentence in Germany to listen to anyone
but the Nazi propaganda machine. How soon they forget....

I know someone who has one of Mr Goebbels radios from the war. Quite
channelized, it is...
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

On 23 Mar 2006 13:31:15 -0800, "Pascal" <pascalg.DeleteThis@uol.com.br> wrote:

>
>This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
>I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.

>The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
>web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
>Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
>discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
>on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

This was scare-mongering to try to stop the free dissemination of data from
places like AIS Live, etc.

AIS Live went subscription model instead, and is still happily sending data
to subscribers via the web - I guess terrorists don't own credit cards
either?

However, it's all come to light a few days ago:

http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/5061
"A new strategy published by the Department for Transport today details the
areas where AIS technology could bring significant benefits beyond its
primary function of monitoring ship movements, and how the data it provides
could open some commercial revenue opportunities to offset its own running
costs."

with the important bit being "commercial revenue opportunities" - seems the
IMO member states are going to start selling the data now they've scared away
the private individuals from doing the same thing?

Dave
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should think a
little more about where this is really going. AIS is being seriously abused
by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of AIS traffic, as well
as environmentalists and governments (the real pirates). The net result is
everyone will have one because of regulations and no one will turn them on
because of the loss of security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other
abuses soon to appear. Damn shame.
Steve

"Pascal" <pascalg DeleteThis @uol.com.br> wrote in message
news:1143149475.573793.279910@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
> I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.
>
> Maritime security - AIS ship data
>
> At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
> (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
> automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
> world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
> AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
> security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
> of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
> navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.
>
>
> The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
> web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
> Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
> discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
> on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.
>
> In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
> AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
> particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
> industries.
>
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam.DeleteThis@lusardi.de> said:

> AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
> think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
> seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
> of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
> pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
> regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
> security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
> appear. Damn shame.
> Steve
>
> "Pascal" <pascalg.DeleteThis@uol.com.br> wrote in message
> news:1143149475.573793.279910@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
>> I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.
>>
>> Maritime security - AIS ship data
>>
>> At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
>> (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
>> automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
>> world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
>> AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
>> security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
>> of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
>> navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.
>>
>>
>> The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
>> web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
>> Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
>> discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
>> on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.
>>
>> In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
>> AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
>> particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
>> industries.

AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
should be. Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these
things don't move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS
could start to form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart
background and voila you have an instanly updated marine chart
(ignoring depth conours etc).

I agree with Dennis. Don't blame AIS because there are a few people out
there who use the data for their own purposes (terrorists/criminals).
Just have the political will to solve that problem.

--
Regards,
John D Proctor
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

"John Proctor" <lost DeleteThis @nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
> On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam DeleteThis @lusardi.de>
> said:
>
>> AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
>> think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
>> seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of
>> AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
>> pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of regulations
>> and no one will turn them on because of the loss of security, risk of
>> fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to appear. Damn shame.
>> Steve
>>
>> "Pascal" <pascalg DeleteThis @uol.com.br> wrote in message
>> news:1143149475.573793.279910@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
>>> I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.
>>>
>>> Maritime security - AIS ship data
>>>
>>> At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
>>> (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
>>> automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
>>> world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
>>> AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
>>> security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
>>> of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
>>> navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
>>> web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
>>> Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
>>> discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
>>> on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.
>>>
>>> In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
>>> AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
>>> particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
>>> industries.
>
> AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
> being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
> anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
> should be.

Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy
that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located?
When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves instead of merely
a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions?

> Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
> move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to form
> the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and voila
> you have an instanly updated marine chart

This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will
know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

On 2006-03-27 01:46:39 +1100, "Ted" <Ted.TakeThisOut@nospam.com> said:

>
> "John Proctor" <lost.TakeThisOut@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
>> On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam.TakeThisOut@lusardi.de> said:
>>
>>> AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
>>> think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
>>> seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
>>> of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
>>> pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
>>> regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
>>> security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
>>> appear. Damn shame.
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> "Pascal" <pascalg.TakeThisOut@uol.com.br> wrote in message
>>> news:1143149475.573793.279910@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications?
>>>> I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.
>>>>
>>>> Maritime security - AIS ship data
>>>>
>>>> At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
>>>> (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
>>>> automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
>>>> world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
>>>> AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
>>>> security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
>>>> of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
>>>> navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
>>>> web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
>>>> Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
>>>> discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
>>>> on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.
>>>>
>>>> In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
>>>> AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
>>>> particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
>>>> industries.
>>
>> AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
>> being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
>> anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
>> should be.
>
> Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
> interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some
> buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is
> located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves
> instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around
> underwater obstructions?
>
>> Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
>> move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to
>> form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and
>> voila you have an instanly updated marine chart
>
> This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
> maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship
> will know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.

You missed the point I was trying to develop. All the man made features
of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future
development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No
need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. (A brave new
world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?

After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

--
Regards,
John D Proctor
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

John Proctor <lost.RemoveThis@nowhere.org> wrote:
>
>You missed the point I was trying to develop. All the man made features
>of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future
>development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No
>need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. (A brave new
>world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?
>
>After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
>aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

Actually, you wouldn't even need a boat. You could go everywhere on
your laptop and save a bundle!


Michael Porter Naval Architect / Boatbuilder
mporter at mp-marine dot com
www.mp-marine.com
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

"John Proctor" <lost.TakeThisOut@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:2006032707325016807-lost@nowhereorg...
> On 2006-03-27 01:46:39 +1100, "Ted" <Ted.TakeThisOut@nospam.com> said:
>
>>
>> "John Proctor" <lost.TakeThisOut@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>> news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg...
>>> On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam.TakeThisOut@lusardi.de>
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should
>>>> think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being
>>>> seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording
>>>> of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real
>>>> pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of
>>>> regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of
>>>> security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to
>>>> appear. Damn shame.
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> "Pascal" <pascalg.TakeThisOut@uol.com.br> wrote in message
>>>> news:1143149475.573793.279910@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans
>>>>> implications?
>>>>> I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maritime security - AIS ship data
>>>>>
>>>>> At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee
>>>>> (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available
>>>>> automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the
>>>>> world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of
>>>>> AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and
>>>>> security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts
>>>>> of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of
>>>>> navigation and security in the international maritime transport
>>>>> sector.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
>>>>> web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member
>>>>> Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to
>>>>> discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication
>>>>> on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish
>>>>> AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere,
>>>>> particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port
>>>>> industries.
>>>
>>> AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from
>>> being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy
>>> anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy
>>> should be.
>>
>> Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really
>> interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some
>> buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is
>> located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves
>> instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around
>> underwater obstructions?
>>
>>> Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't
>>> move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to
>>> form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and
>>> voila you have an instanly updated marine chart
>>
>> This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be
>> maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will
>> know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data.
>

> You missed the point I was trying to develop.

And you seem to be having difficulty comprehending the fact that buoys are
completely irrelevant in a GPS navigation environment.

Another problem you don't seem to understand is that AIS uses a radio
frequency with limited bandwidth. Only a certain number of time domain slots
will fit in that bandwidth thus you can't fill it up with fixed points such
as obstructions and buoys and hazards. That is what a chart is for. AIS is
for moving objects or recently discovered objects that have not yet been
placed on the chart. When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the
mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen automatically
whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard internet
hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the updates.

> All the man made features of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS.
> AIS or its future development will be the basis of a virtual marine
> charting system. No need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks
> etc.

There is no need to even have a virtual buoy. You want to know where the
edge of the channel is located not the location of some buoy that may or may
not be in the correct location. When the GPS chart becomes the universal
standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts
they are simply no longer required.

> (A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?

Electronic charts will save as much money.


>
> After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way
> aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud.

Actually there are a lot of pilots who are using GPS to fly from one VOR
ground station to the next when it is completely unnecessary. They should
just fly direct to the destination they want while avoiding any prohibited
or hazardous airspace.


>
> --
> Regards,
> John D Proctor
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? 

> When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the
> mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen automatically
> whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard
internet
> hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the
updates.

And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks associated
with this idea.

> When the GPS chart becomes the universal
> standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts
> they are simply no longer required.

I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be
jammed or interferred with. I'll take a good ol' paper chart and an actual
physical marker, thank you. While I agree that electronic charting is
*definitely* worth using it's not without issues.

> > (A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved?
> Electronic charts will save as much money.

I doubt it. And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother
arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less.
 >> Stay informed about: AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?