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External
Since: Mar 31, 2005
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:00 am
Post subject: 70hp Evinrude question
Archived from groups: rec>boats (more info?)
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Just replaced the 'voltage regulator' on my 1981 Evinrude 3 cylinder
70hp. I determined I had A.C. input and no D.C. output. The mechanic at
the local shop said "Let me test it with my meter, It's just 4 diodes
in a heatsink". Then he says "Yup, it's bad, the diodes are open".
So I bought a new 'Regulator'. Upon doing my own bench testing, I find
he is exactly correct, it is just 4 diodes. So how the hell is it
'Regulating'? I seem to find there is NO regulation at all, and often
find my battery voltage above 15 volts. This seems like a poor design,
and hard on batteries also.
Anyone have an insider comment? I am guessing the newer motors do
actually regulate the voltage, or do we have to buy a Japanese product
to get that feature? |
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External
Since: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 99
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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gudmundur writes:
> So how the hell is it
> 'Regulating'? I seem to find there is NO regulation at all, and often
> find my battery voltage above 15 volts. This seems like a poor design,
> and hard on batteries also.
You must think in terms of current, not voltage, when it comes to such
issues. Did you measure the current?
You trust the voltmeter? Has it been calibrated?
The *battery* regulates the voltage from any current-limited source, and
small outboard alternators are typically quite limited in current
delivery (5 or 10 amps, less at higher voltages). Unlikely that the
alternator could deliver enough current at an elevated voltage to be
"hard" on the battery.
Fully charging a 12 volt lead-acid battery requires around 16 volts.
Hard on your battery? Easy enough to test with an ammeter. Get the
battery fully charged, run the engine for a while, and measure the
charging current after it levels off. A big battery can take quite a
few amps in, on top of a full charge, and not be harmed.
"Hard on a battery" is a 100 amp automotive alternator sticking on the
high voltage. That will cook a battery. |
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External
Since: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Correct. It is a rectifier- not a regulator. Newer motors have regulators.
You can turn on the lights to keep the voltage down.
-W
"gudmundur" <hexter RemoveThis @blazenet.net> wrote in message
news:116m2ucnl6s76c1@corp.supernews.com...
> Just replaced the 'voltage regulator' on my 1981 Evinrude 3 cylinder
> 70hp. I determined I had A.C. input and no D.C. output. The mechanic at
> the local shop said "Let me test it with my meter, It's just 4 diodes
> in a heatsink". Then he says "Yup, it's bad, the diodes are open".
> So I bought a new 'Regulator'. Upon doing my own bench testing, I find
> he is exactly correct, it is just 4 diodes. So how the hell is it
> 'Regulating'? I seem to find there is NO regulation at all, and often
> find my battery voltage above 15 volts. This seems like a poor design,
> and hard on batteries also.
>
> Anyone have an insider comment? I am guessing the newer motors do
> actually regulate the voltage, or do we have to buy a Japanese product
> to get that feature?
> >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 221
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:53 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 03:00:28 -0000, hexter.TakeThisOut@blazenet.net (gudmundur)
wrote:
> Just replaced the 'voltage regulator' on my 1981 Evinrude 3 cylinder
>70hp. I determined I had A.C. input and no D.C. output. The mechanic at
>the local shop said "Let me test it with my meter, It's just 4 diodes
>in a heatsink". Then he says "Yup, it's bad, the diodes are open".
>So I bought a new 'Regulator'. Upon doing my own bench testing, I find
>he is exactly correct, it is just 4 diodes. So how the hell is it
>'Regulating'? I seem to find there is NO regulation at all, and often
>find my battery voltage above 15 volts. This seems like a poor design,
>and hard on batteries also.
>
> Anyone have an insider comment? I am guessing the newer motors do
>actually regulate the voltage, or do we have to buy a Japanese product
>to get that feature?
It's not a regulator - it's a rectifier.
What do you mean "hard" on batteries?
Later,
Tom >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:42 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Old batteries were leaky and could sink the extra current to some degree.
These newer batteries don;t and the old charging systems cause the voltage
on the system to rise. 16v is abd for elecronics and lightbulbs, and the
battery water (acid) will "boil away" faster.
-W
"Shortwave Sportfishing" <emaildisguised RemoveThis @askme.com> wrote in message > It's
not a regulator - it's a rectifier.
>
> What do you mean "hard" on batteries?
>
> Later,
>
> Tom >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 99
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:42 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Clams Canino writes:
> Old batteries were leaky and could sink the extra current to some
> degree. These newer batteries don;t and the old charging systems cause
> the voltage on the system to rise.
How has the basic lead-acid battery changed in the last, oh, 100 years?
How were they ever "leaky"? >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Mar 01, 2005
Posts: 341
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:36 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Gene Kearns wrote:
> NO! The concrete fable was not a fable....
>
> Concrete is also just a big sponge, absorbing water from the ground
> beneath. During the days of battery construction using asphaltic
> cases, a potential could be set up through the case, if there was
> enough water on the outside of it.... held there by the damp
concrete.
What would keep the wood from absorbing moisture, then? Wood is just as
much of a "big sponge" as the concrete it's sitting on. >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 221
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:00:34 -0500, Richard J Kinch
<kinch.TakeThisOut@truetex.com> wrote:
>Clams Canino writes:
>
>> Old batteries were leaky and could sink the extra current to some
>> degree. These newer batteries don;t and the old charging systems cause
>> the voltage on the system to rise.
>
>How has the basic lead-acid battery changed in the last, oh, 100 years?
>How were they ever "leaky"?
They "leaked" current internally. New lead acid batteries are built
to different specs what with new plating and housing technology.
The basic principle is still the same though.
Later,
Tom >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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SWS,
I remember when they said you could not store your battery on a concrete
floor or it would discharge. They recommended storing the battery on wood.
Is this what you are talking about when you say old batteries were "leaky".
"Shortwave Sportfishing" <emaildisguised.DeleteThis@askme.com> wrote in message
news:p7ip61hs8mb2ei94e5om2u028iv86ebf2m@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 01:00:34 -0500, Richard J Kinch
> <kinch.DeleteThis@truetex.com> wrote:
>
>>Clams Canino writes:
>>
>>> Old batteries were leaky and could sink the extra current to some
>>> degree. These newer batteries don;t and the old charging systems cause
>>> the voltage on the system to rise.
>>
>>How has the basic lead-acid battery changed in the last, oh, 100 years?
>>How were they ever "leaky"?
>
> They "leaked" current internally. New lead acid batteries are built
> to different specs what with new plating and housing technology.
>
> The basic principle is still the same though.
>
> Later,
>
> Tom >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Apr 20, 2004
Posts: 431
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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ME ME ME wrote:
> SWS,
> I remember when they said you could not store your battery on a concrete
> floor or it would discharge. They recommended storing the battery on wood.
> Is this what you are talking about when you say old batteries were "leaky".
>
>
NO!
The concrete fable is just that. Concrete is just a big heat sink.
Rob >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 221
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:39 am
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:42:44 GMT, "Clams Canino"
<nowayhose.DeleteThis@nospam.net> wrote:
>Old batteries were leaky and could sink the extra current to some degree.
>These newer batteries don;t and the old charging systems cause the voltage
>on the system to rise. 16v is abd for elecronics and lightbulbs, and the
>battery water (acid) will "boil away" faster.
Makes sense - thanks.
Later,
Tom >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 221
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:51:53 GMT, Gene Kearns
<Please.email.me RemoveThis @the.link.on.my.webpage> wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:33:51 -0400, trainfan1
><lmsearing RemoveThis @usdatanet.net> wrote:
>
>>ME ME ME wrote:
>>> SWS,
>>> I remember when they said you could not store your battery on a concrete
>>> floor or it would discharge. They recommended storing the battery on wood.
>>> Is this what you are talking about when you say old batteries were "leaky".
>>>
>>>
>>
>>NO!
>>
>>The concrete fable is just that. Concrete is just a big heat sink.
>
>NO! The concrete fable was not a fable....
>
>Concrete is also just a big sponge, absorbing water from the ground
>beneath. During the days of battery construction using asphaltic
>cases, a potential could be set up through the case, if there was
>enough water on the outside of it.... held there by the damp concrete.
>
>Once battery construction employed impermeable cases, this phenomenon
>disappeared and ... over time.... became a fable.
>
>Modern batteries have a lower internal resistance and can allow
>unregulated power supplies to create a higher charging voltage than
>those intended by the original motor designers.... assuming they even
>foresaw the use of a charging system to run gee-whiz electronics,
>rather than just replenish a starting battery....
>
>Check the manuals for electronics.... many now support much higher
>voltages than 12-14V. If they don't however, you risk frying
>something....
What he said. :>)
Later,
Tom >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 221
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:05 pm
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 25 Apr 2005 10:36:22 -0700, atl_man2.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>Gene Kearns wrote:
>
>> NO! The concrete fable was not a fable....
>>
>> Concrete is also just a big sponge, absorbing water from the ground
>> beneath. During the days of battery construction using asphaltic
>> cases, a potential could be set up through the case, if there was
>> enough water on the outside of it.... held there by the damp
>concrete.
>
>What would keep the wood from absorbing moisture, then? Wood is just as
>much of a "big sponge" as the concrete it's sitting on.
True, but it's not quite the same.. Concrete has lime - good old
acid/base chemistry.
Later,
Tom >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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External
Since: Mar 31, 2005
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 70hp Evinrude question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <4oum61ho77us8k0bcoff7ut145lqcopiin RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
emaildisguised RemoveThis @askme.com says...
>
>On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 03:00:28 -0000, hexter RemoveThis @blazenet.net (gudmundur)
>wrote:
>
It is generally accepted to charge at a higher current until 2.3v per cell
is reached, or 13.8v, then taper back the current until 2.4v per cell is
reached, or 14.4v. At this time a 'float' charge is allowed at 2.3v or back
to the 13.8 volts. At no time does a 'Real' charging system go over the 14.4
volt limit. I see mine up at about 15.5 often, and I am concerned about
damage to radios. As one poster mentioned, keeping my running lights on
holds the float voltage to about 14.5, and that is acceptable to me.
>It's not a regulator - it's a rectifier.
>
>What do you mean "hard" on batteries?
>
>Later,
>
>Tom >> Stay informed about: 70hp Evinrude question |
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