26" clipper sailboat

"Al" <Almann RemoveThis @mygaff.fsnet.co.ukdontspamme> wrote in message
news:bgeg1u$670$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
 >
 > However, before parting with any more money, and given that you come
across
 > as someone who has very limited idea of what to do, ask if you have the
 > necessary skills to do the work required to a sufficiently high standard
(it
 > could be your life at stake).

Actually, Tom is a very skilled and talented craftsman, I guess like most of
us on a first time project, we just need pointing in the right direction.

 > I would seriously consider cutting your losses and getting hold of a boat
in better condition.
 >

If everyone followed this premise, then nothing would ever get restored. I
think a better approach would be to provide the information (if you have it)
that was requested, and allow the person to make their own value (as in
worth) judgements
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

John-R W says:


We didn't know that.

 >Actually, Tom is a very skilled and talented craftsman, I guess like most of
 >us on a first time project, we just need pointing in the right direction.
 >

That changes the picture. From the original post, it certainly looked as
though we had someone who was unsure of what needed to be done, what equipment
and materials to use. When restoring something that your life WILL depend on,
like the hull of a boat, I would rather see Al's response than something like
the recent "car engine in boat" thread where the OP was advised to just weld
the output flange to the outdrive unit and go play.

  >If everyone followed this premise, then nothing would ever get restored.

I would differ with you there.

 > I
 >think a better approach would be to provide the information (if you have it)
 >that was requested, and allow the person to make their own value (as in
 >worth) judgements

If someone is of the opinion that the person does not have the ability to make
the repairs well, then , again, I would rather see Al's answer than almost any
other.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm" target="_blank">http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

res0l34l wrote:

 > I just purchased a 26" clipper sailboat. It is going to require a lot of
 > fixingup. The wood inside the fiberglass hull is going to need replacing.
 > I do not know how to attach wood to a fiberglass hull, what kind of wood
 > to use, how to sucessfully remove the interior without damaging the hull.
 > Any help would be helpful.
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > Tom Ford

OK (rolling up sleeves) here goes...

I replaced one of the vertical bulkheads and all of the wood in the forward
vee-berth in my Clipper 26.

I used mahogany-faced ply for the bulkhead - the original is teak-faced ply,
but I couldn't afford that when I did the repair (15 + years ago). I cut
the fiberglass tabs holding hte original bulkhead in and removed it in as
much of one piece as possible and used it as a template for the new piece.
The new piece went in just like the old one came out, and I fiberglassed it
in with resin-impregnated tape just like the original one was. Today I'd
use epoxy, but that was then and this is now.

The Vee-berth was a phenominal PITA because I had to replace all the
poured-in-place foam flotation too. Again, where possible I used original
pieces for templates and fiberglasses the replacement parts into the hull.
I DID make a Tee-frame to support the berth surface and heavily reinforced
it with stringers down both sides to increase the gluing (fiberglass resin)
area. Again, i I had it to do over again, I'd use epoxy, not figerblass
resin as an adhesive. I also would NOT use two-part pour-in expanding foam
for flotation, rather, I'd go to some home improvement store and buy sheet
foat insulation nad cut to fit; it would probably take less time, be less
expensive (the 2-part foam components were about $100 back then and toxic
as all hell) and be a LOT safer to use.

Here's the best advice I can give you - TAKE YOUR TIME! I did the whole
job in a couple of days with a cheap-o jig saw and small tools like that.
I used exterior sheathing plywood for the vee berth (probably could have
used it for the bulkhead too and just painted it for all the difference it
makes in a Clipper) and did ateh entire job by myself - a helper at times
would have been appreciated, and other times swould have been totally in
the way.

Here's the next best advice I can give you - get the Gougeon Brothers (sp?)
book on using epoxy in wood boat building, and their leaflet on wooden boat
repair, and hit your local library for a couple of books on basic carpentry
- this is NOT rocket science.

Above all, work safely - rushing to get to the hospital will NOT improve
your production rate.

Feel free to ping me off line if you wish. mailto:rweaver80@comcast.net

All the best,
Rob Weaver<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

Stephen,

Thanks for the support, I did try to make it clear that my advice was free
and worth just that. As you say, learning that Mr Ford is a craftsman
changes the picture a little. I believe that cautionary advice can often
act as a way to reassess exactly what is hoped for and exactly how it is
expected to achieve that. From my own experience, it is very easy to get
carried away with something and realise somewhere down the line that more
time and money has been invested than is really wise. It's better to stop
and think about these things before you get that far.

However, this should never stop someone from doing anything. If these
questions are answered acceptably the the person, in this instance
performing a restoration, should then be in a better place from which to
move forwards working more efficiently and effectively with fewer checks
along the way to producing a better quality product. The restorer should
have more confidence in the project and himself.

Al
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

I have know Tom for going on fifteen years now. He's an old fart like me. He
is a very skillful machinist, and has been involved in many aspects of
manufacturing and repair.

Cautionary advice is always helpful, but, knowing Tom, I'm sure he
considered all that was involved in the restoration of this boat prior to
purchasing it.

Not ever having restored a "boat" before, I think he was just looking for
someone to point him in the right direction. Looking for some very basic
information to get started. I'm sure he would have been a regular on this
NG, and would have probably been able to add some very useful commentary.


"Al" <Almann.RemoveThis@mygaff.fsnet.co.ukdontspamme> wrote in message
news:bgh4ak$ksr$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
 > Stephen,
 >
 > Thanks for the support, I did try to make it clear that my advice was free
 > and worth just that. As you say, learning that Mr Ford is a craftsman
 > changes the picture a little. I believe that cautionary advice can often
 > act as a way to reassess exactly what is hoped for and exactly how it is
 > expected to achieve that. From my own experience, it is very easy to get
 > carried away with something and realise somewhere down the line that more
 > time and money has been invested than is really wise. It's better to stop
 > and think about these things before you get that far.
 >
 > However, this should never stop someone from doing anything. If these
 > questions are answered acceptably the the person, in this instance
 > performing a restoration, should then be in a better place from which to
 > move forwards working more efficiently and effectively with fewer checks
 > along the way to producing a better quality product. The restorer should
 > have more confidence in the project and himself.
 >
 > Al
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

John R W says:

 >I have know Tom for going on fifteen years now. He's an old fart like me. He
 >is a very skillful machinist, and has been involved in many aspects of
 >manufacturing and repair.
 >
 >Cautionary advice is always helpful, but, knowing Tom, I'm sure he
 >considered all that was involved in the restoration of this boat prior to
 >purchasing it.

From the sounds of his original questions, I'm not so sure. Things like "The
wood inside the fiberglass hull is going to need replacing. I
do not know how to attach wood to a fiberglass hull, what kind of wood to
use, how to sucessfully remove the interior without damaging the hull. Any
help would be helpful." sound like someone who is a bit lost on where to start.

 >Not ever having restored a "boat" before, I think he was just looking for
 >someone to point him in the right direction. Looking for some very basic
 >information to get started.

That's like saying "Never having restored a "plane" before, he was looking for
someone to tell him how to build a wing." A "boat" (why the quotes?) is
something than can kill you if you do it wrong.

We would love to help Tom out, but we really need to know more about what he
has, and where he is stuck. If he is completely in the dark about fibreglass
construction, then he needs to start on something smaller to prepare for a
26-footer. Does he have a timber boat with a Fibreglass abrasion layer, or
does he have a glass boat with a timber veneer inside for looks?

 >I'm sure he would have been a regular on this
 >NG, and would have probably been able to add some very useful commentary.

I'm sure he still can be, and would be welcomed by the very people you are
accusing of being mean-spirited. So far we have only seen his original post,
and some accusatory ones of yours.

Tom? You there? Come back and give more info.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm" target="_blank">http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

Stephen,

I'm leaving this one with you, clearly I'm just fanning the flames for
whatever reason.

Al
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

Al says:

 >I'm leaving this one with you, clearly I'm just fanning the flames for
 >whatever reason.

I wouldn't worry too much at this point, Al. It looks like Rob Weaver has
bravely stepped up to the plate and is offering his advice based on his own
rebuild of a Clipper 26.
Assuming Tom is still reading, or John is willing to pass it along, Rob seems
to have hit the nails on the head for us.

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm" target="_blank">http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

"Stephen Baker" <saildesign DeleteThis @aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20030802174803.06112.00001620@mb-m03.aol.com...
 > I'm sure he still can be, and would be welcomed by the very people you are
 > accusing of being mean-spirited. So far we have only seen his original
post,
 > and some accusatory ones of yours.
 >
 > Tom? You there? Come back and give more info.
 >
 > Steve
 > Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm</font" target="_blank">http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm</font</a>>

Sorry if my posts came across as accusatory, I certainly didn't intend to
project that.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat 

Don't know if they make plywood that thin or not. A 26 inch Clipper Sailboat
huh?...... cool


"res0l34l" <res0l34l.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:2kGVa.5395$yv1.1775@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
 > I just purchased a 26" clipper sailboat. It is going to require a lot of
 > fixingup. The wood inside the fiberglass hull is going to need replacing.
I
 > do not know how to attach wood to a fiberglass hull, what kind of wood to
 > use, how to sucessfully remove the interior without damaging the hull. Any
 > help would be helpful.
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > Tom Ford
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 26" clipper sailboat