New 20hp Honda carb gummed up

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:57:14 -0600, PhantMan00.TakeThisOut@hotpopcom.invalid
wrote:

 >Bought this motor last summer and have about 10-12 hours on it. Guess
 >I didn't get all the fuel out last time I used it so now the carb jet
 >is clogged (so says the dealer technician). The tech tells me it's the
 >only real prob with these motors for some reason or other, even when
 >you *think* you've run the carb dry, it's not really all outta there
 >(funny the salesman didn't mention it last summer), and it'll take him
 >a couple of hours at $75 per hour to remove the carb and clean it.
 >
 >I've dismantled plenty of 2 stroke Merc and Johnson carbs so I figure
 >I can do this one too. But I've never done a Honda and I'd like a shop
 >manual or similar to go by. Problem is, Clymer et al manuals aren't
 >available for a motor this new ('04). And Honda doesn't make theirs
 >available except to authorized shops (according to this dealer).
 >Sooo.... anybody have any advice, warnings, or ideas? If I'm gonna be
 >faced with this prob for the rest of the life of this engine (so says
 >the tech), I might as well learn how to clean it myself.

Just curious - did you put fuel stabilizer in the mix before you ran
the carb out?

I'm also a little suspicious about the carb being gummed up after
10/12 hours. I've got a brand new Johnson 25 out back that I fired up
yesterday after 4 months of lay up and it lit right off - I didn't do
anything to it because I ran out of time.

I suggest two things. One, there is something wrong with the carb and
should still be under warranty - get them to fix it. It seems to me
that there could be several things wrong other than a stuck or clogged
jet. This should be a warranty deal after that short a period of
time.

Two, spray it down with a good carb cleaner first and see if that
frees things up. It not, goto Item 1.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On 2/17/05, "Snafu" wrote:
 >Isn't there a screw on the bowl of the carb to drain it?

Yep. That I can do. The tech tells me it won't unclog the jet though.

 >You could run some engine storage stuff (Heet?) mixed in the
 >last batch of fuel for the season, and then drain the bowl.

That'd work as a preventative measure I suppose. But now that the jet
is already clogged, the tech tells me that probably won't work to
unclog it. Might try it anyway though, before I disassemble the carb.
Couldn't hurt. Thanks.
Btw, I'm on the Gulf Coast. We don't really have an off season.
Thanks for the response,
Rick
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On 2/18/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
 >Just curious - did you put fuel stabilizer in the mix before you ran
 >the carb out?

Nope. I usually just hook up to a garden hose to flush when I get
home, then unplug the fuel line and let the carb run dry. We don't
really have an off season here (Gulf Coast) so I don't do any sort of
winter storage procedure. I can never predict how long the boat will
go unused though.

 >I'm also a little suspicious about the carb being gummed up after
 >10/12 hours.

That's run time though. The gummy part happens, even to a new motor,
when any fuel is left sitting in the carb for a few weeks. Three weeks
in this case.

 >I've got a brand new Johnson 25 out back that I fired up
 >yesterday after 4 months of lay up

Yuppers. I've got a '68 model 6hp Evinrude that fires right up even
after a year or two (although I am pretty good about turning it over
by hand every few months to make sure the piston hasn't frozen to the
cylinder wall). I've never had a prob with gummy carb as long as I run
the fuel out after each use. Same with an old 200hp Mariner I've had
for years. The tech tells me I might as well get used to it with this
4 stroke Honda though.

 >This should be a warranty deal after that short a period of
 >time.

If cleaning the jet doesn't resolve the issue, I agree. I'll go that
route.

 >Two, spray it down with a good carb cleaner first and see if that
 >frees things up.

Plan to do that when I get the carb apart. Mainly just to spray the
jet passage. The tech tells me it's so small you almost need a
magnifying glass to see it. Therein lies the "easy to clog" problem.

I have a parts list (drawings) for my other motors. I wish I could get
one for the Honda. For taking things apart and putting them back
together, those parts blow ups are as handy as a shop manual imho.

 >Good luck.

Thanks.
and thanks for the come back.

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:35:51 -0600, PhantMan00 RemoveThis @hotpopcom.invalid
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

 >I have a parts list (drawings) for my other motors. I wish I could get
 >one for the Honda. For taking things apart and putting them back
 >together, those parts blow ups are as handy as a shop manual imho.

I agree.

I know a guy who has a ton of experience in outboard repair - one of
those troubleshooter types - and he told me once that when he was at a
big dealer down along the shore, the Honda rep visited. He asked if
there was going to be a Honda school or in-service seminar and the
Honda rep said (as reported) "Honda's never break - there's no need
for schools".

In my anecdotal experience Honda's are great engines, but when they
break, the reported problems are usually really strange.

Interesting.

Later,

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On 2/18/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
 >Honda rep visited. He asked if
 >there was going to be a Honda school or in-service seminar and the
 >Honda rep said (as reported) "Honda's never break - there's no need
 >for schools".

LoL!... funny. Must have been a rep from their sales division. Sounds
like a typical response meaning, "I don't know" or "Let's change the
subject".

Went back by the dealer today and asked for a parts catalog.
Basically got the run around and a long involved excuse encompassing
everything from Federal EPA regulations to liability concerns ...
oddly enough he didn't mention possible warranty violations like I
expected. But they finally gave me the phone number for Honda's
Cusomer Relations Dept. So I called the number, drilled down through
a recorded menu, and was eventually told in the taped message that a
parts catalog can be ordered through any dealer LoL! So now I'm back
to square one. I guess now I'll try a different dealer. Maybe even let
'em listen to Honda's own menu. We'll see what happens next.

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

PhantMan00 RemoveThis @hotpopcom.invalid wrote:

 > That's run time though. The gummy part happens, even to a new motor,
 > when any fuel is left sitting in the carb for a few weeks. Three weeks
 > in this case.

I think you would be better off not running it dry. Mine hasn't gummed
up in 5 years and has gone several periods of a month or so without use.

-rick-
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:47:15 -0600, PhantMan00 DeleteThis @hotpopcom.invalid
wrote:

 >On 2/18/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
  >>Honda rep visited. He asked if
  >>there was going to be a Honda school or in-service seminar and the
  >>Honda rep said (as reported) "Honda's never break - there's no need
  >>for schools".
 >
 >LoL!... funny. Must have been a rep from their sales division. Sounds
 >like a typical response meaning, "I don't know" or "Let's change the
 >subject".
 >
 >Went back by the dealer today and asked for a parts catalog.
 >Basically got the run around and a long involved excuse encompassing
 >everything from Federal EPA regulations to liability concerns ...
 >oddly enough he didn't mention possible warranty violations like I
 >expected. But they finally gave me the phone number for Honda's
 >Cusomer Relations Dept. So I called the number, drilled down through
 >a recorded menu, and was eventually told in the taped message that a
 >parts catalog can be ordered through any dealer LoL! So now I'm back
 >to square one. I guess now I'll try a different dealer. Maybe even let
 >'em listen to Honda's own menu. We'll see what happens next.

Sounds like the runaround I got from Garmin one time. Never did
talk to a human until the end and she informed that what I was asking
for was only available from a dealer - who told me to call Garmin.

You just can't make this stuff up.

Later,

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:43:30 -0800, -rick- wrote:


 >
  >> That's run time though. The gummy part happens, even to a new motor,
  >> when any fuel is left sitting in the carb for a few weeks. Three weeks
  >> in this case.
 >
 >I think you would be better off not running it dry. Mine hasn't gummed
 >up in 5 years and has gone several periods of a month or so without use.

I do much the same with most of my outdoor equipment and my small
Johnson 25. The difference is that I always use Sta-bil or a couple
of ounces per gallon of Marvel Mystery Oil for over winter use.

Ain't failed me yet.

Later,

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On 2/18/05 -rick- <nobody wrote:
 >I think you would be better off not running it dry. Mine hasn't gummed
 >up in 5 years and has gone several periods of a month or so without use.

Yours is a small Honda?
I don't recall having a prob with my 6hp evinrude but in the case of
my 200hp Mariner, my floats have stuck like glue to the bottom ot the
bowls after the gasoline evaporated over time. Nothing would unstick
them except opening the bowl, reaching in with a finger, and pulling
them loose. After that, I give the bowl and jets a good spraying with
carb cleaner, put it all back together, and I'm good to go.

My Honda dealer also sells Mercury. The tech gave me the impression
that my 20hp Honda is more prone to carb clogging than Mercury because
of the extremely small jet. Personally, I dunno. Sounds reasonable but
that's why I'm asking for opinions from the group.

Thanks for yours
Cheers,
Rick
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On 2/19/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
 >I always use Sta-bil or a couple
 >of ounces per gallon of Marvel Mystery Oil for over winter use.

Sounds reasonable but how do you do that? Just dump the stuff in your
fuel tank? Or use a small separate tank just for that purpose?
I guess I could do that but I never know when my last trip of the
season is (cuz it's a 12 month season). but still, there are times
when I might not use a particular motor for several months. I never
know in advance so I'd have to do it after every trip I suppose.....
.... which wouldn't be bad if I had an easy way to do it.
Complications = three different motors, 2 of 'em 2 cycle one of 'em 4,
three different fuel line fittings, etc.
Might give it a go though. If it works it'd be worth it.

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

PhantMan00.RemoveThis@hotpopcom.invalid wrote:
 > On 2/18/05 -rick- <nobody wrote:
 >
  >>I think you would be better off not running it dry. Mine hasn't gummed
  >>up in 5 years and has gone several periods of a month or so without use.
 >
 >
 > Yours is a small Honda?
 > I don't recall having a prob with my 6hp evinrude but in the case of
 > my 200hp Mariner, my floats have stuck like glue to the bottom ot the
 > bowls after the gasoline evaporated over time. Nothing would unstick
 > them except opening the bowl, reaching in with a finger, and pulling
 > them loose. After that, I give the bowl and jets a good spraying with
 > carb cleaner, put it all back together, and I'm good to go.
 >
 > My Honda dealer also sells Mercury. The tech gave me the impression
 > that my 20hp Honda is more prone to carb clogging than Mercury because
 > of the extremely small jet. Personally, I dunno. Sounds reasonable but
 > that's why I'm asking for opinions from the group.
 >
 > Thanks for yours
 > Cheers,
 > Rick



Sorry I wasn't clear, it is a 2000 15hp Honda. I use it as a
kicker/trolling motor. As Tom (short-wave) noted it's also good to treat
the tank with Sta-bil for storage.

Regards,
-rick-
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:35:40 -0600, PhantMan00 RemoveThis @hotpopcom.invalid
wrote:

 >On 2/18/05 -rick- <nobody wrote:
  >>I think you would be better off not running it dry. Mine hasn't gummed
  >>up in 5 years and has gone several periods of a month or so without use.
 >
 >Yours is a small Honda?
 >I don't recall having a prob with my 6hp evinrude but in the case of
 >my 200hp Mariner, my floats have stuck like glue to the bottom ot the
 >bowls after the gasoline evaporated over time. Nothing would unstick
 >them except opening the bowl, reaching in with a finger, and pulling
 >them loose. After that, I give the bowl and jets a good spraying with
 >carb cleaner, put it all back together, and I'm good to go.
 >
 >My Honda dealer also sells Mercury. The tech gave me the impression
 >that my 20hp Honda is more prone to carb clogging than Mercury because
 >of the extremely small jet. Personally, I dunno. Sounds reasonable but
 >that's why I'm asking for opinions from the group.

Personally, I'd ask him to prove that - doesn't make a lot of sense.

Later,

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up 

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:47:35 -0600, PhantMan00.TakeThisOut@hotpopcom.invalid
wrote:

 >On 2/19/05, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
  >>I always use Sta-bil or a couple
  >>of ounces per gallon of Marvel Mystery Oil for over winter use.
 >
 >Sounds reasonable but how do you do that? Just dump the stuff in your
 >fuel tank? Or use a small separate tank just for that purpose?
 >I guess I could do that but I never know when my last trip of the
 >season is (cuz it's a 12 month season). but still, there are times
 >when I might not use a particular motor for several months. I never
 >know in advance so I'd have to do it after every trip I suppose.....
 >... which wouldn't be bad if I had an easy way to do it.
 >Complications = three different motors, 2 of 'em 2 cycle one of 'em 4,
 >three different fuel line fittings, etc.
 >Might give it a go though. If it works it'd be worth it.

Sta-Bil works with all motors - just pour it in the gas. It's very
easy to do every time you add gas and if you go a little over or
under, it's not a big deal.

It will save you bucks in the long run.

Later,

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: New 20hp Honda carb gummed up